Gremlins, Technology and Supernatural Sabotage
Wondering Monsters Podcast, Episode 25: Gremlins, Technology and Supernatural Sabotage |
Monster Ranking: 4 Monsters
Introduction to Gremlins and Aerial Folklore
In this compelling episode of the Wondering Monsters Podcast, the hosts dive into the strange world of gremlins, mythical creatures historically linked with the sabotage of technology, especially aircraft mechanics during early aviation eras. The conversation moves beyond pop culture representations to trace gremlins back to their roots in military lore and folklore. Historically, pilots reported unexplained malfunctions attributed to tiny creatures that maliciously interfered with mechanical systems. These tales were especially common in the early 20th century with the rise of airplanes as tools of war and travel.
Origins and Characteristics
The hosts discuss how gremlins differ from traditional goblins or trickster spirits. Unlike simple fantasy creatures, gremlins were specifically associated with interfering in mechanical processes by chewing wires, draining fuel tanks, and jamming components in planes during World War I and World War II. Some accounts described these beings as small, mischievous figures with distinct features like long noses or bug‑like eyes, emerging from bottles or unseen corners of cockpits to create chaos.
Mischief Beyond Mechanics
Interestingly, the hosts note that gremlin reports stretched into varied scenarios: not only sabotaging devices but occasionally assisting ground crews or seeming to help in ways that paradoxically caused other problems. This ties into broader folklore traditions where supernatural beings perform ambiguous acts that may help or hinder humans. The hosts connect these threads to other mythic creatures, suggesting gremlin lore may have evolved from earlier house spirits or fey entities that meddled with humans' tools and technology.
Gremlins vs. Aliens: Cultural Interpretations
A fascinating segment explores the overlap between gremlin stories and modern alien encounters. With the mid‑20th century rise of UFO sightings and alien narratives, some traditional gremlin tales faded while technologically framed alien stories became dominant. The hosts speculate that what were once explained as mechanical‑mischief beings evolved into extraterrestrial interpretations as cultural norms shifted. They contrast these folklore strands with contemporary explanations, asking whether some alien encounter reports could be misinterpreted evolutions of ancient gremlin beliefs.
Technology, Folklore and Human Psychology
One of the central themes is how humans make sense of unfamiliar or frightening technology. The episode explores how, when early aviators faced mysterious failures in aircraft, they sometimes turned to folklore to fill gaps in understanding. Gremlins became a narrative framework for fear and uncertainty surrounding machines. The hosts also draw an analogy between early mechanical fears and modern issues, suggesting that even today with digital tech or AI, humans still seek narrative bodies to attach unexplained phenomena.
Wartime Stories and Psychological Stress
The discussion includes wartime anecdotes where pilots, under extreme stress, reported odd sightings or mechanical failures that were attributed to gremlins. The hosts explore how high‑stress situations can influence perception and memory, making supernatural explanations more compelling without dismissing the experiential reality for those individuals. They also reflect on psychological factors that could create patterns in how people describe strange encounters, tying this into broader human responses to fear, risk, and uncertainty.
Modern Parallels: Disruption and Digital Tech
The episode draws surprising parallels between gremlin folklore and modern disruption from computer bugs to AI hallucinations. The hosts suggest that as technology becomes more complex and opaque, people may lean on mythology or supernatural frameworks rooted in folklore to explain inexplicable glitches. They juxtapose the playful gremlin metaphor with real psychological responses to unknowns in digital systems, humorously connecting sneaky gremlins to software bugs and electrical system failures in mundane settings like cars.
Community, Conspiracy, and Interpretation
Throughout the episode, the hosts wrestle with how culture labels ideas as conspiracy or myth. They propose that dismissing odd phenomena outright can sometimes stifle curiosity. Conversely, embracing every unusual event as evidence of supernatural forces can lead to uncritical acceptance of myths. The thread weaves a tapestry of skepticism and openness, encouraging listeners to balance critical thinking with imaginative inquiry when exploring lore like gremlins.
What Gremlins Mean Today
By the end of the episode, the hosts gently conclude that gremlins, whether literal entities or metaphorical explanations, reflect deep human anxieties about control, technology, and the unknown. They suggest that even if gremlins are not "real," the stories surrounding them offer insights into how people historically interacted with mechanical fear, wartime stress, and emerging innovations. The playful yet thoughtful discussion invites reflection on broader themes, from how myths evolve to how modern narratives like aliens and UAP intersect with folklore.
This episode blends folklore, wartime history, psychological inquiry and modern parallels in a way that enriches both fans of paranormal discussion and curious listeners alike. Whether you’re fascinated by gremlins, aircraft lore, alien mythology, or how humans cope with uncertainty and technological change, this summary captures the heart of Episode 25’s rich discussion.
Links from the Show
- Are Ouija Boards Real?
- Nessie Cryptid History
- Time Slips Explained
- Leprechauns Real History of Irish Folklore
- AI Apocalypse Explained
Watch & Listen to the Full Episode
Enjoy where the conversations of silly meet strange at the Wondering Monsters Podcast.
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Licensing Information
- Title: Entry of the Gladiators
- Composer: Julius Fučík
- Library of Congress (Public Domain)
- Podcast theme song version edited/arranged/mixed by Dan Swift
Unless indicated, images appear in their original form.
Images were generated using AI from MyNinja.ai, NightCafe, lenso.ai, Gemini, or ChatGPT
Transcription
*Transcription was automatically generated and may contain errors.(Music)
WDG: When technology changes, and kind of change, and sometimes like creatures and stuff, that otherwise would do other things, start to adapt to new technology. That's a, so yeah, let's talk a little bit about Gremlins, you know, like not the fun movie Gremlin. Gremlin basically saboteurs of technology, most specifically aviation technology, right? So, you know, there's something on the wing, there's something out there.
Danny C: (Laughs) Which is funny very briefly, when I was first looking into this, I always compared Gremlins to goblins. Like I always thought they were like synonymous, and it wasn't until I actually like dove into this, I was like, "Oh no, Gremlin is like real attack." Like that's the history behind it. They are hardcore associated with tech. And I was just, "Ah, well, interesting."
WDG: Yeah, and it's like, and a lot of it is like very much like aviation tech. And I, similar to like, like your thought, like there might be like a, some kind of link up to goblins, but it's like, there are another version of a trickster. The like first written account is like, I think it comes, it's like 23. And it's like basically a journal, a quarterly journal of military history or something like that, and talking about the, like a lot of this is like the, with the Royal Air Force. And this guy is talking about how he's flying his plane. And there's like these little creatures or little people jump out of a bottle of beer and they start sabotaging the mechanics of his plane.
Baba: In other news, it was perfectly normal for the bottle of beer to have been there.
WDG: You don't wanna drink the water, depending where you're at. I mean, like so, so there's like, but there does seem to be like, although a lot of it does center around just before World War II, you know, obviously this is the heightened version of aircraft. There is some like things where they may have also originated early in like, in like World War I and II, like the first type of use of like aircraft for things, but like, but it really gets its prominence in, and it's like, it starts in that like 20s and 30s in like Malta and you know, like other places where the Royal Air Force is right before the war like happens, you know, so it's like, so there's like this kind of like different, and the gremlins start to like, they can kind of appear like as like, like little, you know, kind of creatures, like they're like, or like more like people type things, but so much other like they folks, it's like, there's kind of like different, there might even be like different color versions of them that have different taxonomies, and there's like this idea that they're like, they usually have like a slightly longer nose, like a little, like they're kind of wispy, and they like, or sometimes they're invisible, you don't see them or you just see traces of them like wires that have been chewed through or things that have happened, you know, but it's like, and it's, which is kind of funny, like there's like, there's ones that like, they get inside the gas tanks, they drink all the gas from the plane, or like they jam up the guns during like a fight, they jam up the landing gear, they have like, they've packed a spare map for navigation and the navigation map is gone, or like there's a broken dials and things, and you'll, there'll be like a little wrench left behind, you know, or something like these. So there's this element too, where they're kind of like, similar to like, I guess like other kind of like house of fey spirits, but they're like, they don't like aircrafts apparently, it's almost like they just don't, they don't like, they have a problem with them. And sometimes like, there was instances where they were like, they're good, you know, where like they might like, sew something up or help out the ground crew in some way, but when they're doing something good, it's like to the detriment of another thing, like they unjammed a gun, so they can shoot another plane down or something, you know, they ride along in like the slipstream of the aircraft sort of like, you know, and like grab onto planes and things, and sometimes they live inside of the planes, like in, you know, in different areas, like tearing things apart and, you know, disassembling stuff, but they're mechanical like based, and it's kind of interesting, it's a, yeah, so this guy, he was about to land his plane, and he saw a creature and it was like, it was gray with like bug eyes, right? Like, and then another creature that was almost like an owl type creature appeared on the front of the plane, the nose of the plane and started like attacking it, the crew did some kind of, you know, maneuver and shook them off, but it was like, it kind of sounded like this kind of like red eye, bug eye thing, very like Mothman tendencies too, you know, so I thought that was kind of interesting.
Baba: And it makes me think of how to say aliens, you know, because I'm talking about creatures from space or from the future that are different enough from us that, you know, that here they are, and like you'll get these different, so it starts out, you'll get like these different descriptions of aliens, and then gradually there are like more and more descriptions of them, so like most people now, 2026 for historical purposes, have a pretty big familiarity with like the alien gray, right, it's like the gray bald skinny alien about human height, probably smaller with big eyes. Now we've also got people talk about like reptilians, and then these other ones that just kind of look like humans that are all blonde and stuff, so there's all kinds of different, and not to disparage people's accounts, yeah, I'm just, you know, it's funny because like you'll, yeah, you get like these descriptions of like gremlins that have like suction cup feet, it's like well, that doesn't sound like a creature, like, you know, but it's also like,
WDG: oh, Sometimes they're also wearing like little like, like flake goggles and stuff like that, like how did they get like the, they grabbed them up or something, yeah, they're like,
Baba: Right, like what's the supply chain on that, you know? Did they, did they like refine petroleum into, plastics and things, I don't know, you know.
WDG: So back to our, sort of like our leprechaun conversation. That's what I was just thinking, yeah. It's like they have like these like miniature version of these different things, they're kind of like crafts people, but gremlins are sort of like, they're crafty, like they know mechanical stuff, but they're kind of like against it, like they don't, they don't like this, and particularly like, it seems like it's broken out during this like start of this, like fairly new technology really taking off, right? Like so like things are going like wrong, but then it's also like during like a heavy war time that it's like these things are happening, like that they're jamming them up, they're like, like there's like some kind of like thing, but when you're talking about aliens, I was like, I was really trying to, I'll go back a little bit to like, some of the earlier stuff, I was really trying to find like, there's this thing where it's like after like, probably like about the fifties and stuff, this stuff starts falling out of fashion, like the rise of like the like jet aerospace stuff, you know, like that kind of, and like, you know, the like, essentially like NASA programs, things like that, you know, like the, and it's like, well then gremlins start falling away, but then what do we have that's a rise of, we have like, oh, well, we see like lights, we see aliens, we start seeing all these things, the jet pilot might have an encounter with like UAP or whatever it is, and then like, oh, all of my instruments go crazy, and I can't, I don't know what's going on, and like everything's, you know, goes awry, and it's like, well, maybe it's not that, like the, you know, gremlins are aliens, maybe aliens are gremlins. (Laughing) Well, it's like, because they seem to have the similar phenomenon, like sometimes you can't see them, sometimes they appear weird, sometimes they set you off course, they mess up your plate, like they, you know, like an encounter with one can, it's like, you'll be in a dog fight with another jet, I mean, leaving in some of the more recent things, and then all of a sudden something appears and throws people off course, and gets everything messed up, and they're like, well, because I guess like aliens sound more, and then I think you'll like this one here, but like aliens sound more like scientific, it's like, it's the rational, like, the fae folk, right? They must exist from another place, and another thing with advanced technology, and it's like, well, what about like, if it's all these just something else, it's just like weird, weird, it's not, it's just like, oh yeah, sure, like it's like, I feel like aliens is like, as much as it's like, we don't have proof, we don't know the thing, but it's like, but it seems like, well, there must be like this rational explanation behind this thing we don't get, and it's like, but before it was like, no, it's probably weird little goblin like things that are ripping everything apart, I don't know, which is kind of a little more fun, I think.
Baba: So it's funny, because this reminds me of a, chair's falling apart here, donate to our podcast, like no chair, it doesn't fall apart. So yeah, it makes me think of, okay, so this is like, God, there are like four tangents I can go on, which one am I gonna go on, who knows? I've got to talk actually about, yeah, like, is it, so when you have the leprechaun shows up, and it's like, it shows up, but it's not quite right, like something's kind of like off about it. And you might think of like, well, what if we were trying to, I don't know, like, you're trying to impersonate something, you don't know all like the little details on it for like, why these things are around, like you might not understand, why, what like a belt is for or something, you know, it's just a thing that's there, so you make it look like something, but it doesn't make sense. Or like, we talked about like the airship type thing, like the, oh, oh yeah, well, we got to show up in these airship, these boats in the sky, you know, like it doesn't make sense, but it's kind of like, but we're trying to do it in a way that kind of makes sense to these creatures, you know? So that idea is like, there's a thing that's appearing, that's varying its appearance in order to work for us, you know, then the other idea is like, there's a thing there, and something's happening to us, that has us perceive it, and we make our best approximation of it, or whatever, and that's why it shows up like that, you know, and looking like people and stuff. And then of course, oh, there's nothing there, you're just blaming mechanical problems on the supernatural things, they're not real, you know? And so when it comes to like, quote unquote aliens, like space aliens, you know, we've got this idea that, yeah, like this is more respectable, because we know boats don't float in the sky, and we know that leprechauns and things aren't real, but yeah, like this thing in a metal craft that comes from some other planet like ours, then that starts to fall apart.
WDG: It completely defies the laws of physics.
Baba: Yeah, well, that's the thing, it starts to fall apart, and it's like, okay, well, this isn't a scientific explanation either, this is just a ghost story with more sciencey sounding things. Yeah. But what the heck is it really? You know? And now I'm of the belief, this shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that's listened to me babble on before on one of these things, I'm of the belief that these things are all ghosts, basically, you know, they're not crafts from another planet, or maybe there aren't other planets.
WDG: Maybe this isn't real, this is a simulation. We can't get off on that.
Baba: No, no, we almost wound up there last time.
WDG: Yeah, we got a real bad one in for simulation.
Baba: All right, so let's say though that, you know, there are planets, there are planets, I believe in them. But yeah, like, you've got this ghosty kind of thing. I'll talk about the other tangent I didn't know if I was gonna get on or not, Bigfoot. Oh yeah, Bigfoot, imagine that, that getting brought up. But Bigfoot shows up on battlefields. Now, if you go with the explanation that Bigfoot is some kind of a monkey bear thing, right? There's just living out there with its own food supply we don't know about and plenty, you know, yeah, it's an animal that lives in the woods that we haven't chopped down yet. Okay, but why would it be on a battlefield? There's only one primate stupid enough to run after dangerous sounding sounds or towards fire or other things that can kill you. And they also have podcasts. So, why would Bigfoot be on the battlefield? Well, what else shows up on battlefields? Ghosts, what else shows up on battlefields? Aliens, in fact, listeners who stayed on, thank you. And check out this channel called wartime stories. That's all just about weird stuff that happens in battle and in wartime and in war places. And they range from the stuff we're talking about today, gremlins, very much a wartime phenomenon to giants. I don't know if we'll ever talk about giants on here or not. We'll be referencing some wartime stories because it's, yeah.
Danny C: So the one thing that's really interesting, and this goes back to when we talked about time slips and the whole idea of people talking about these things when they have nothing to gain from it. So the idea, you know, we're talking about what was the Royal British Army, I think it was the Royal British Air Force. Yeah, yeah, obviously flying Air Force, obviously.
Baba: Unless they're not flying cause gremlins.
Danny C: (Laughing) And I think about modern day accounts of pilots talking about seeing saucers or whatever. And it's like, they have nothing to gain from this. They only have stuff to lose. And it's interesting that on one hand, it's like, oh, it's the logical, fully grounded, unimaginative part of me is like, it's all BS. But then the other part of me is like, then why would they all talk about this? Why would they risk? And in some cases you've had people lose their pensions, their jobs, they lose everything because they talk about stuff like this. It's just, so just talking about that, it reminds me of that conversation we had during the time slips episode.
WDG: Yeah. And there might be like an element to like, I mean, I guess if you want to get out of the fun, like fantastical part of it and into like the, the mundane, like the like psychological nature of like, this is crazy. Like airplanes have basically just been invented for the most part. Like let me figure the time between like the 20s and 30s, the start of seeing these things up and then into like, like the Battle of Britain and that kind of stuff, you know, like, like the, you know, and the blitz at all. It's like, it's kind of a, there's not a lot of time for that tech, that technology develops like really rapidly from like, the Wright brothers like basically built a glider with a lawnmower. (Laughs) It's like this kind of thing and you're navigating this thing like kind of, you know, pulleys and cables and a throttle, you know, like that, you know, and it's like a gearing and chains and stuff. There's nothing to, now you're flying these things like very fast in cockpits with guns shooting at each other, like over the top of the city, you know, it's like, it goes to this, this kind of like jump in things. So I mean, like it's a, it's a technology jump that's pretty quick. And it's also like coping with something that's like, yeah, like we never, we didn't have these things, you know, 30 years ago and now we're literally using them to fight wars in the air. Like, it's like, like, I mean, there's, so there probably is like something like, what's going on? Like, you know, it's like, you know, like, at least I mean, so, so actually like something like, yeah, well, it's not my fault. Gremlin's got this thing or like, I did not tighten that bolt, like, because I was, I haven't slept and I'm trying to work on all these planes. It was probably, or just the fact of like, talking about when you're exhausted and at your point of stress and you start seeing weird things like, you know, it's like, you know, like, probably do see things. So there could be that, but like, you know, or maybe the exhausted point of stress, maybe there are just weird things that you now can see. I don't know if the tick, Yeah, like, you feel like having like, we kind of talked about, and it's weird, like funny enough, when I was looking at this research a little more and I was thinking about the story, the first story of like, that's written down about the, them jumping out of a bottle of beer or talk about the mushrooms, like these little mischievous guys and now they get in everything and now they're just gonna like wreck stuff. But you know, it's like, because I don't know, maybe they don't like this technology very much or something like that. It's, then other equivalents like, that are a little like earlier, there seems to be like, of like a variation of like cobolds, which are not like, let me think of it as D and D cobolds, like the little lizard guys, but they're like, the traditional cobolds, they're like, they're almost like a, you know, kind of like, a little almost like, think like they look sort of like the house elf from like Harry Potter or something. They have the big ears, they're very small, they're dressed in little like tunics though, and they like, you know, like, kind of like, not quite a gnome, but you know, like that kind of thing. And they, you know, some of them are in mines, some of them like are in houses, but then there's like stories, it's like that they would get on ships and they would sometimes like do stuff like, if they were good, they'd like help out and fix things on the ship, but they'd stow away on boats and like, and sometimes they would wreck stuff on the boat. You know, it's like, so, and like, and then there's like another version that's like, I'm gonna, you know, here we go, mess up the pronunciation, the Klobberthmann, like, it's like, I guess it's, that's more of like, I mean, cobolds are dramatic already, but this is like another kind of, more specifically boat version of the cobalt, not just a stowaway cobalt, but one that now lives on boats. And they could like, they sometimes will warn people if there's danger, you know, or they would like, they'd fix things that, you know, were in disrepair like on the ship, similar to like a Brownie or something, you know, like that kind of idea. But then there's like other ones that will like, if the ship is over in disrepair, they'll like mess it up more because they don't like the, they kind of feel like you shouldn't have let the ship go disrepair. So there's kind of like this kind of like weird push and pull. So like, and that's like, I feel like that's the most like equivalent I can find to like, well, it's like sailing is kind of new tech. It's like same thing. You see these things when you're out at sea, they start messing with the ship, like messing with the ropes, messing with the sails, or sometimes they're good and they fix things. And you know, so it's kind of similar to the Gremlin, but maybe not as like, I feel like maybe not quite as mischievous though. Yeah, like Gremlins definitely seem like they're more like into like sabotage.
Danny C: Yeah. I didn't have the foresight to think about this, but how far back does something like a Gremlin go? Like you talked about ships, you talked about like a thing that messes with ship navigation or whatever. How far back does it go? Do we have things messing with catapults, you know, screwing with pulley systems? How far back does this go?
WDG: I couldn't find anything like that. I mean, that would probably be like the closest thing I could think of it probably be like that, like something like, you know, a brownie or something that's like, it lives in a house or on a farm and it does some chores, but then if you mess with it, it wrecks stuff. But it's not like, but I don't know of anything that's like particularly like messing with like say like construction technology or like, you know, battle technology. I was just thinking more of like, you know, the, yeah. So, but if anyone else knows anything. You know where to put it?
Danny C: Comments.
Baba: I was hunting down a little reference and I think it's kind of funny. It's this sabotage by Gremlin here. I was looking up a reference that I had encountered in a clearly AI assembled video on Gremlins. And one of the things they said was that some people thought what Gremlins really were, the plain Gremlins, were Chinchillas that had climbed into the planes in the Andes and chewed through the wires, which might make a little bit of sense. Chinchillas have a diet high in wires and, you know, so would, but the Andes, I mean, were we running many things out of South America in, or, you know?
WDG: I mean, it might just be like that one instance. I mean, there is like wire things, but there's another story I had read that was basically like, wires were like, looked like they were severed, not chewed through. You know, it's like, like, other ones where it's like bolts are literally like loosened up, you know? Like, it's like, I don't think Chinchillas are specifically, I ordered like on the gun in flight, you know, it's like up on a gun, like messing with your gun when you're in the middle of a battle.
Baba: I don't believe the Chinchilla explanation, but it does lead to a funny little thing. So I was looking at the Chinchilla explanation and it turns out that probably where AI got this Chinchilla reference is that people will refer to the Maguai in the Gremlins movie as being like a Chinchilla or refer to them as Chinchillas.
WDG: Well, that brings it to like the, well, maybe two things. One, I had twice in the course of a week when I was living in Baltimore, had rats chew through the wire, my car. I don't think that counts as Gremlins, but they were definitely mischievous and big. Like, you know, so it's like the ones that had like, caught glimpses of rats, apparently do like electrical wiring. Big squirrels also like it as well. So there's some kind of precedence for animals chewing through wires. So again, maybe like things like AI hallucinations and things like that are kind of a sort of moderate version of the Gremlin in the computer age. Like, it's like, well, here's this new technology and it's kind of going off the rails. You know, it's like, it's conflating things that aren't true with things that like are half true. Or subreddits or something. Yeah. And then just going like, you're really smart. Here.
Baba: And is it there because of their sense of humor in that regard? You know, it's like, do they mess with our planes because we make really funny expressions when we're freaking out or something? You know, this is just a twisted kind of humor of these otherworldly things. And also, talk about the Gremlins movie for just a second here.
WDG: And-- But I can talk about the Twilight Zone.
Baba: Oh, we're gonna talk about that too. One thing I thought was funny, I was talking to Sharon about this earlier. The notion of you would go into a store in Chinatown buy a weird animal that you don't know what it is and give it to your kid. And that seems like a good idea. And I was like, why would somebody do that? And I was talking to Sharon about this morning and I was like, because it was the 80s. And that's just how the 80s were.
WDG: Or whatever Gremlins was supposed to be taking. Well, the funny thing is like here, I'm gonna say like, this is my weird, my like, my hot take on a very, very old movie. It's the creatures are not Gremlins in Gremlins. The movie, they're not, no, no, no, not like, even in the context of the movie, the term comes from because the one guy, he's an old World War II vet. And he talks about like things getting into the machinery. And it's like, he has this old truck that's like using for like a snowplow. And it's like, he's like, ah, they don't build things like back in the day. And it's like, and he goes on like a story tangent about how things used to get into stuff and break things up, no Gremlins. And then when he sees the, like, that's it. So it's like, so in the movie, it's just like this other creature, but like, and they do do things, but they're not like, they're not actually Gremlins. Gremlins is just like the thing that he's talking about as like a sort of, I guess, like, you know, equivalent thing. So it's not, they're not, they're not actually like, they're not the like, they're like, even in the movie world, there's something else. There are like, they're Maguai, right? You know, that's why they're a different creature. And yeah, and I think buying the, well, first of all, the guy in the story, the kid knows that the, like the grandson of the guy, of the, of the very creepy old, like, you know, guy running the shop is the one that sells him the thing on the side. Like, you know, like he sneaks it out to get some, to make some extra money. And it's like, but then there's like, yeah, I think it was just like, oh, bargain exotic pet from a place I've never heard of, you know? It's like, my kid will love it. And it's got creepy rules that go along with it, you know? So it's like, no, no, no. (Laughing)
Baba: It's like, this doesn't sound like a dog.
WDG: Yeah, I mean, like, it's like, there's a, the, she changed it, but there's like, like one of my favorite Simpsons, Treehouse of Horror episodes, which one does have a grip, something on the wing, like reference, but it's like, reveling on the school bus. But the, it's the one where he buys him like, basically like the cursed, crusty doll from the store. And he goes to the store and it's like, like that's the only place you can go to buy this kid, like a store that sells cursed objects. And it's kind of like, yeah, like, why would you do that? (Laughing) Bad parenting. Bad parenting.
Baba: From today's perspective, totally normal at the time. Yeah. (Laughing)
Danny C: Whatever I think about that movie, I think about those days when we would, we would watch Gremlins and we would constantly rewind the part when the lady flies out the window of the chair.
WDG: Yeah.
Danny C: She's coming back in, and she's going back out. She's coming back in, and she's going back in.
Baba: Talking about small creatures with the twisted senses of humor. Children, children, they fit that description.
WDG: That lady was pretty evil though. Yeah, she was. She tried to kill the dog, like, you know, wicked witch style.
Baba: Yeah, well, and that's the thing. There was a sense in which it was sort of like a justified act of violence in our mind, you know, but, oh no, no comment. Except for those of the viewers in our comments below. Or listeners wherever you are. Yes. So yeah, so, okay, so there's this concept of demonic technology, and the idea is that we get technology from demons. We get them from sometimes invisible things that we make deals with in order to get some kind of technological advantage. And that kind of story, I mean, it's an old tale, you know. But if you actually look at things like the technology of metallurgy, of making weapons or something like that, but then, well, what's the downside of that? Well, now you're involved in this war world, you know. Or you get the technology of a certain type of, the technology of building cities and walls and things to protect your city. But, well, what do you lose? Everything outside the wall, right? Like when you start living in these towns and cities, now you're separated from the forests and things. And you lose something in that, you know. And that, so this idea that goes along with this cursed technology or demonic technology that you get something, but you also, along with it, you get the short end of the stick or the other side of the blade or the whatever metaphor you want to extend to it. And so when you start getting, so you've got, now you've got planes, you know. And it's like the first time we're in this little realm and something starts showing up, you know, that, that's the, that exposes something about this. You know, it related to this technology, here are these creatures now in this realm we've not been able to access before, the sky. And they're messing with us, you know. And so there's a sense in which like, well, is it because there's a tainted technology? Is it because by accessing this thing, we also wind up, we didn't read the fine print, you know, like in the terms and conditions, number 77, we'll make it 72, number 72, you get, demons. (Laughs) User of this technology agrees not to be bothered by the tiny creatures, you know, taking apart your technology. It does not hold the inventor of this technology responsible or whatever, you know. And it's, so it's kind of funny cause we get in these realms, you know, where we've got this new tech or this new realm we're in, you know, and then we get this stuff, like that, aliens.
Danny C: It almost reminds me of going along with that, you know, you hear these stories where you have these nuclear missile silos and for whatever reason, you know, you see people report of, you know, aircraft or flying for not something in the sky, you know, and all of a sudden the silo goes offline and it can't do anything. And it kind of reminds me of that where it's like, you know, it's in theory, you know, if you subscribe to the idea of gremlins and aliens, it's like, these things are keeping us from doing certain things. They don't want us in the sky, you know, gremlins is like, no, no, the sky is not for you, you're staying down here, you know, and same thing with like this concept of aliens too, where it's like, no, no, nuclear missiles, no, no. Those are not for you either. You're gonna kill yourselves, you know, that's no, sorry, no.
Baba: Or they thought it was funny to see everybody running around trying to figure out what happened. And it's just like, they're all just like, like, yeah, look at that guy again. Wait till we go to the other side, go over to Russia.
WDG: Yeah, I think in the like, with the... Could have been the Soviet Union at the time. With the ship, like the, like different, like creatures like hopping ships, right? Like that kind of makes a like, at least like fall in that kind of folklore sense, right? It's like, well, you kind of, what's a ship? It's like, it's made, I mean, especially like bigger ship, you know, like the day of like large ships, it's like they're in the forest, right? You like, you have to like, everything's made from very big trees. And these creatures are kind of like, you know, generally far, forests, you know, like they end up on farms, but they're like, they're from this kind of forest, fae world that's like, and it's like, well, you like took the far, I'm going to jump on the ship then. Cause you basically do forest it like, you know, it's like, so there's kind of like this kind of weird, you know, like that, but like the gremlins thing is like completely like feels like a little different just because it's like, the tech is so, it's all like metal and weird things and, you know, like bolts and wiring and it's all this stuff that's like not, you know, that's just like, and they're like, but they're like mechanically knowledgeable enough to like, I know if I undo these things or I mess with this stuff, it's going to like screw this up. Like so it's like kind of like, it's like, it's like almost like they, you know, they kind of know the kind of cool thing. This to some degree, you know, in order to do, it's not just random like chaos, like just tearing through stuff or whatever. It's like, you know, it has a more.
Danny C: Or they have no knowledge of it and they're just curious. Like how? Well, it's my turn this.
Baba: Turns out it doesn't take much to break a plane.
Danny C: But this wire's in my way. I'm just going to cut it so I can walk through here nice and easily.
WDG: Yeah, yeah, that's true. That can be a...
Baba: Oh man. Yeah, so it's, I mean, it's funny. And I mean, going back to the whole, like the AI hallucinations and things like that, you know, and the idea of the demonic technology, you know, now here we are, we're just stuff we don't quite understand. We're messing around. We think we understand it. And you see that, that's kind of a thing like, I mean, oftentimes, so we'll create these technologies based on models of the world. And then it turns out that those models aren't correct, but the technology worked. And so it's like, are we, like, how much of these things have to do with like our mistaken concept of just how the world works in general? And I mean, going back, I like what you said about the chopping down the woods to make the boats. I mean, cause like, where the heck do we get all the, all this stuff, you know? Like, right now we're talking about like, you know, processor chips or, you know, screens of various type plasma screens or various types of screens that are touch responsive and things. And you have to like dig into the earth, pretty decently to get these things. I'll save my tangent about capitalism, but we have to do these things, you know? And oh no, actually I am gonna, no, no, I won't, I won't. Scott talk about debt as a demonic technology, but what are you stirring up when you're digging into these things? I mean, you gotta, Lord of the Rings and, you know, like the dwarves and what did they stir up? You know, digging down in these depths, you know?
Danny C: I'll add into that real quick. So there's this well-documented, well-documented, we're gonna go with that. Cause this is the internet, we could say whatever we want. There's this well-documented phenomenon where when people do renovations on their home, like large scale renovations, a lot of times it kicks up paranormal activity. And the idea is, you know, is it people's spirits that used to live there? It's like, why are you messing with my home? That kind of a thing. But it is not uncommon for this sort of thing to happen when people start doing massive renovations.
Baba: Yeah.
Danny C: So it's about the idea of like deforestation to build boats, kind of a similar idea. Like we're taking, you guys are hanging out here, not anymore, we're taking this to build our boats.
WDG: Yeah. I guess strip mining the earth to build technology.
Danny C: Elliot's like, you want metal? How about these sauces? We'll show you some metal. (Laughing)
Baba: Yeah. It's really strange. I mean, obviously we're talking about it.
Danny C: Yeah.
WDG: That's the whole point of the podcast. That's right.
Baba: Yeah. So I mean, when you've got, so let's take it in a strange direction.
Danny C: So before this is all just like normal stuff.
Baba: Yeah, it was totally normal. We're talking about planes. Yeah. But strange would be if people told you they weren't real. Why? Okay. Let's suppose now, let's play this game. Gremlins are real, but the government specifically, the war, the war governments, governments that want you flying planes and things are gonna say that these things are not real. Right? Why? And I mean, I already gave away the story. I mean, I was trying to set that up better. Cause they want you to fly, right? You know, they want you to go up there and you know, you're like, oh, this guy's seeing Gremlins, you know, just give him one of those, you know, things to make them not see him anymore. Yeah. Inject the internet and do a snack so you can't see them anymore. What if they're there? What if they're there and there's just this coverup story? And I mean, I'm saying Gremlins.
WDG: It's a TSA, just the screen really is the screen for Gremlins. That's why.
Baba: Yeah. Or like people have seen them, you know, do you have anything to declare? Do you bring anything? Do you see anything weird on your flight? You know, like I haven't been on a flight in a while, not because I'm banned from them. I don't know. I haven't given it a shot in a while, but maybe that's why. Tell me, do they ask you these questions when you're getting on a flight anymore?
WDG: Have you seen this Gremlin?
Baba: Yeah, I mean, maybe the whole thing isn't, I mean, people are talking about, again, beginning of 2026, we're in what was at that time referred to as the United States. Yeah. And, you know, they're checking your social media when you come in from outside the borders. Well, then they're definitely not gonna let us on flights. Maybe it's because they want to see if you're talking about Gremlins. Maybe they want to see if you've seen anything weird. All right, enough of that. Let's, someone else talk.
Danny C: I'm gonna stay on this. So if they want to keep that under wraps, then the why, why are they, my job's too, they're using them, they're using them somehow. What are they doing? Are they using them to sabotage other countries' planes? Are they using them to sabotage other network infrastructure or utility infrastructure? Are they using them to have massive parties and throw down during off hours?
Baba: I'm afraid it's much more disappointing than any of those. I figured it out already. To get larger market share. That's it, that's it. My job. It's just to get larger market share so they can have more money.
WDG: We need to actually get some kind of surveillance to Gremlins. They overload server networks that are, like, pulling cables and stuff.
Baba: At a point, I think this was during World War II, pilots started doing things to bribe the Gremlins. They started leaving offerings and things like that. What you start having now is this weird kind of magic. Magic, you can't get rid of it.
WDG: Well, it's the same thing as like, that's what you do with health spirits, like, you know, or health, house fat you leave a little, like, piece of bread or some kind of something for them, you know, or like milk or whatever it is, you know, like, so to keep them happy, you know, if they're gonna be in your house doing stuff, because then if they get mad, then they'll wreck.
Baba: Gremlins, so after they became more popular among pilots, popular in the sense that people believed in them a little bit more or where the superstition was on the increase, you know, if you call it superstition, other than just being aware of the truth. And the superstition was on the increase and the actual military education started to take advantage of these Gremlins and it was like, oh, well, there's this type of Gremlin that shows up if you haven't checked your, you know, gone through your protocols to make sure your plane's running right, you know, and so it became this thing where it's like, oh, no, well, this is what they really are. It's if you haven't done things right, but that hearkens back to the idea of like Brownies, specifically, are the house entity that wants your kitchen clean. And it wants you to make sure your kitchen's clean too. And if you don't keep it clean, it's gonna really, it's like, oh, you thought it was trashed before? I'll show you trashed. There's that old, that's that dad warning, you know, I'll give you something to cry about, you know, I'll give you a dirty kitchen, you know.
WDG: You've got time to lean, you've got time to clean. (Laughing)
Baba: Well done, nice reference. And so there's this notion, particularly from people later in history of looking back at me and like, it wasn't a Brownie, they had a mouse. Do you think they hadn't known that they had mice? Like, I mean, the mice were just a part of it. This was something different.
WDG: Maybe the Brownie unleashed the mice in the house.
Baba: It's like anthropologists being like, oh, they don't even know, big footage is real, it's just a monkey. It's like, you think they didn't know that there were monkeys? I mean, like, psh, anthropologists. But this is not talking about contemporary anthropologists, nothing against you, you all. Actually, you guys are starting to be a little more open-minded. But that kind of idea of, it's like you're not doing your job and so something comes up and trashes the place. But I don't think that's it. I think that's part of the cover-up. I think that's the, actually like the notion of calling everything a, sorry, everybody, calling everything a conspiracy theory to discredit it. Some of them should be discredited. And sometimes that's the way of discrediting them is just by calling it a conspiracy theory. Because the idea was, oh yeah, it's people working together this time. Well, actually, yeah, like that actually happens a lot. People work together to do something that is in the interest of that group. But the idea
WDG: that-- Are you saying they conspire? Is that what you're trying to say?
Baba: Yeah, right. Which means-- I have a theory about that. It means to breathe together, by the way. That's where the etymology of conspiracy. To breathe together. But the idea that, hey, we can make these people look crazy. We'll say what these things really are, are these scientifically respectable explanations to discredit these people that are saying they see this bluey furry thing on the wing of the plane. So that's one end of it. The same thing happens with the alien world. Oh, well, we're gonna tell all these people working on this secret military technology that it's actually stuff we've reverse engineered from aliens so that then when they go out there and spill the beans about it, they're gonna look crazy because they're saying it's aliens. But then a layer lower in the disinformation, actually it is. (Laughing) It's just the next layer, actually it is. And we spread this story of the technology because we have to keep you all from being scared to fly your very expensive killing machines because aliens really are out there doing these things.
WDG: Do you think aliens have gremlins? You think they're, that's why their spaceships end up cracking so much. That's why they're here. They're just like, "Freaky." (Laughing) They're like ripping apart the, "Oh, my flying saucer, oh no."
Baba: And you know the thing is that the problem with the disinformation explanation is you just never know how deep the disinformation goes. Like how did you reach the conclusion that it was the deep state and that wasn't just an explanation for something much more problematic?
WDG: It's turtles all the way up. So how do we wanna go about with this? So we should talk about like gremlin, like traditional either unseen or little mischievous creatures inside the plane ripping the hell out of it. Or it's like, should we talk about like, you're on a plane and you see, you think you see something, like how scary is that? You know, I'll start it out, let's see. So yeah, I was on a plane, saw a little thing. And even if we've got some turbulence or something, whatever it was, like just did crash the plane. Yeah, I'd still be pretty scared of that. I think like, I mean, planes are, even to this day, yes. We have a lot of, you know, I would say like, obviously yes, planes crash less frequently than cars, right? Like, you know, I mean, it's like, you're much more likely to get into a car accident than, you know, an accident in an airplane. But when planes do crash, they really crash. It's like, they don't just like fender bender, you know? And recently there's been some serious like, I mean, like the fact of like the neighborhood, not too far from where we grew up, had an airplane crash into it, you know? It's like, like there's like, there's, you know, things of like all kinds of-- They thought I could stop it. Yeah. We're not there anymore. All kinds of stuff. Like, it'd be like just like recently, there's been a slew of like pretty high profile airplane crashes and like, yes, it's like, again, if you look like throughout the large statistic, it's like, but it's still scary. I think that's why I think we focus on it still too. It's like, we don't cover every car accident where someone is hurt in a serious way, but we do cover airplane crashes when people are like, when the airplanes fall out of the sky for some reason, because it's scary and it is, and the whole, and the technology still is kind of scary. We put a lot of trust in it, you know, that it's gonna work. So if I saw like a gremlin, yeah, I'd be freaked out. So I'm gonna give gremlins good, but give them good four. I think because of the relation to something that's just inherently scary and dangerous and the possible, if I saw something or a little guy, yeah, I'd be like, oh great, this is going to hell. Or if I was about to get on a plane and I saw a little thing, get on a plane, I probably would rethink. Like if you were like getting on the plane, you saw like little guys like coming up the luggage thing and getting into the plane. Would you like to be like, I think I'm gonna change this flight.
Danny C: I'm gonna take it a step further. Would you tell other people?
WDG: I might, yeah, it's like, I don't know. That would be like, probably have to try to tell someone they would probably think you're crazy and not listen to you. You probably end up in like a TSA thing getting interviewed about like, why are you telling people this thing? So yeah, that would definitely put you in a bad position.
Baba: I mean, that part's kind of scary. That's scary as well.
WDG: That takes up to a five. Yeah, that's, that is. It's like, that's pretty, can I jump because like, yeah, if you actually saw something out there getting onto the plane, you know, and what if you didn't tell someone that the plane crashed? Well, that's too late anyway. But then if you did tell someone that the plane crashed, they might also have played. Oh, do you?
Baba: Would it be too late for them to get worried back to anyone who knew?
WDG: Yeah, gremlins are scary. Like in that case, it's like, yeah. Definitely put them in a solid four category.
Baba: Yeah, it's a little bit like seeing the, oh, the Flying Dutchman. You know, it's like, apparently you die when you see it, but how do we know that? You know, yeah, and so yeah, I guess like since not all gremlin sightings wound up being game terminating, then we know about them. So yeah, so gremlins, do I find them scary? Okay, so if I were on a plane and saw a gremlin on the wing or what I identified as a gremlin on the wing, yeah, I'd probably be, I'd be pretty freaked out by that. And I even welcome that stuff, just not in times when it could possibly kill me. And everyone else. And everyone else, I'd be more concerned about myself and whoever they're with. But yeah, not that I don't care about my fellow people, but that would be my immediate concern. Best strategy at that point is actually to make an offer to the gremlin, whatever you have on you. And there's plenty more when you get to wherever you're going. You have a credit card, make good on that offer because I imagine you probably have to fly back and these, they know you.
WDG: Get some of those extra little plain drink bottles.
Baba: I'll get you the real size, the real size. Yeah, none of these plain size things. Yeah, so yeah, hard to deny it. That would be a solid four, goes to a five if I have to be in government custody when I get back. Tried to explain gremlins. Question by anything related to DHS. I don't think it's, my likelihood of encountering one soon probably isn't that high since as I mentioned, I don't really fly. Also, we might not be able to fly soon. You might not be welcome anywhere else. (Laughing) Especially after this. (Laughing) Yeah, that's all I got. (Laughing) I'm going to give it four monsters. Goes to five once you involve the government.
Danny C: When it comes to people in general, I don't have a whole lot of faith in them. I think a lot of times people like to take shortcuts, which is not a reflection on me and my personality and my work ethic. Just in general, people like to take shortcuts. And when it comes to anything like of a giant scale like that where I'm putting, if something could go wrong, it could be catastrophic. I tend to be a little scared of that. We talked about ships before, the idea of just being on a ship, not a fan of that. Planes the same thing. I've never liked flying. And I don't know if it goes back to the twilight zone watching the gremlin on the plane when I was a kid. Was I too young to see that? And it just kind of stuck with me my entire life. I don't know. But the idea of flying like to this day, I don't like it at all. Given the opportunity, I'd rather drive than fly. So I'm going to end the idea of seeing a gremlin on the plane just that's going to put it over the top. So I'm going to say for me, I'm going to say it's more like a four and a half for me. That's just seeing a gremlin be powerful.
WDG: It's usually high rating for you. I know, I know.
Danny C: So I'm detecting a trend here. I have to be in like a situation where like catastrophic failure could be demise. That usually puts me up pretty high when I can't do anything about it. And I don't know what I would do if I saw it because I feel like it's a very big moral dilemma. Do you say something or do you not? If you say something, you could be, it's like the trolley experiment. If you say something, you could be saving a bunch of people but at the detriment of yourself. And if you don't say anything, you're fine possibly. But like everyone else could be in a bit of a pickle. So yeah, that's a tough one. But for me, four and a half definitely don't like the idea of gremlins and I definitely need to research on what offering I need to make to keep them happy for the next time I fly.
Baba: When I think like, if you're a materialist person, okay? So you believe we're bodies, everything's scientifically acceptable. Everything is scientifically provable. That's real, you know, and if it's not, all this stuff. And you look out and you see a gremlin. And you are convinced that it's a gremlin. Let's take it further. You like, like in the, I think this happened in the William Shatner one. I remember better than the one with the, in the Twilight Zone, the movie, but it's the same sketch. Was that shot the scale in the Twilight Zone movie? I think so, I think so. And so they get to the end of the thing and they get outside the plane and there's a bunch of damage to the plane. And it turns out there probably was a gremlin. Okay, so let's say you get to the end. You saw a gremlin, you get to the end, there's damage to the plane. It seems like maybe it was a gremlin. But you're like a person that's always been, nah, like consciousness is the epiphenomena of processes in the brain. And all we are are meat suits with these brains, that consciousness is just the brain. You know, now all of a sudden you see this supernatural creature. What does that do to your world? Like your entire world, you probably just got a lot. Yeah, your entire world just got scarier because if gremlins are real, what does that mean about everything? You know? If you saw the Loch Ness Monster or one experience that is undeniable to you that lets you know that this world is weird, what does that do to all your other little parameters you've built around things that keeps you feeling safe? What do you do with your philosophical city wall that walled you off from the forest and all the things that lived in it?
WDG: That wasn't too good anymore. I guess if you're the type of materialist thinker that doesn't really believe in certainty, I guess it doesn't matter because nothing was quite certain to begin with. They hallucinate certainty though, actually. They're weird. You know, it's like, I mean, you know, I think I would probably fall closer to a material somewhat at times, you know, but I don't really believe in certainty as such. But you'll close the closet door. Yes, yeah, I will. Well, that's what I mean. I said it's hot. I think, you know, yeah, there are things that are scary, you know.
Baba: Yeah, I think, yeah, I think this is like a really... Things that go bump in the night. Is it really fun and weird one?
WDG: And when it comes to like... Yeah, I kind of find it more scary than I thought I would as I go into it because it is kind of one of those phenomenon centers, like, yeah, it's just more like it's weird enough. And I mean, technology going wrong can have broad implications, but like plain technology going wrong is really bad implications. And yeah, and it's like this weird kind
Baba: of... So there's this thing, I usually don't jump into the theory after we've already done our monster or whatever, you know, but whatever, we can even...
WDG: The wrap up. ...throw it out.
Baba: But yet we've got this idea when it comes to technology and being in these areas where your survival is dependent on the technology. Or... I'm gonna just leave it at that. How desperate is the human attempt to grasp this technology that's just at the edge of one's ability to conceive because it's never existed before, these planes and things like that, in an effort to get that, to learn it, to integrate it? Do we reach out with our, what I'll call psi capacities, you know, what we call psychic powers, things that are beyond our normal functioning in order to attempt to do it? You know, we're really pulling out all the stops. In that attempt, do we create some kind of a disturbance in what I'll just call like the psychic field that stirs up the other things that are in the psychic field? Because like, whether it's like... And again, like when you have these technologies that are emerging, you know, do we stir up things in the psychic field? You know, racing for market share on AI. You know, I mean, there's survival to a lot of those clowns, you know, so... You know, I mean, do we stir up-- Or
WDG: next time you're gonna get on a plane and take those like little cushion mushrooms and that's... (Upbeat Music)