EP 3: What are Liminal Spaces and Why Do They Feel So Weird?

Watch/Listen to this Episode What are Liminal Spaces and Why Do They Feel So Weird? License Info What are Liminal Spaces and Why Do They Feel So Weird? Transcription What are Liminal Spaces and Why Do They Feel So Weird?

In this eerie and deeply engaging episode of the Wondering Monsters Podcast, the show dives into the world of liminal spaces — the strange, transitional environments that seem to exist between reality and dream. The episode unpacks why these places feel so weird, unsettling, or even nostalgic, and how they’ve become powerful symbols in horror stories, folklore, and internet culture.

What Are Liminal Spaces?

Liminal spaces are physical or emotional locations that exist on the threshold — between what was and what will be. These places might include empty stairwells, hotel corridors, vacant school buildings, or deserted shopping malls. They're often ordinary locations experienced in abnormal ways — at night, out of season, or completely unoccupied.

The term “liminal” comes from the Latin limen, meaning “threshold.” In anthropology and psychology, liminality is a transitional phase, often associated with ambiguity, disorientation, and change. In architecture or urban life, it refers to spaces that people pass through but do not linger in — places that feel strange when encountered alone or out of context.

Why Do Liminal Spaces Feel So Weird?

The weird feeling comes from a combination of factors. Liminal spaces trigger the psychological concept of the uncanny, where something is familiar but feels subtly off. They disrupt expectations — for example, a school hallway that should be filled with noise and people is suddenly silent, making it feel eerie or surreal.

The episode discusses how the human brain relies on context cues for safety and orientation. When those cues are missing, our minds interpret the setting as potentially dangerous, even if there's no immediate threat. This explains why so many people report a strange sensation — anxiety, déjà vu, or existential dread — in places like dimly lit parking garages or abandoned hotels.

Real-Life Encounters with Liminality

The episode features listener-submitted stories describing real-world brushes with liminal spaces. One recounts walking through an office building during a power outage and experiencing a moment of total stillness that felt like stepping out of time. Another describes exploring a shuttered mall where phantom footsteps echoed behind them.

These eerie experiences reflect a common emotional thread — that liminal spaces make people feel disconnected, dreamlike, and hyper-aware. They're reminders that our sense of place is built on social activity and environmental feedback — both of which vanish in liminal settings.

Liminal Spaces in Horror and Internet Culture

Horror creators have long embraced liminal settings. From the timeless voids of Silent Hill to the empty hotel corridors of The Shining, liminal environments heighten psychological tension. The podcast highlights The Backrooms, a viral horror myth featuring endless yellow halls and flickering lights. What started as one creepy image on the internet evolved into a vast collaborative horror narrative based on the idea of being trapped in an endless, uncanny space.

Online culture has amplified the aesthetic. Hashtags like #liminalspaces and #weirdcore showcase eerie, depopulated photos of schools, pools, malls, and stairwells. Viewers feel a mix of fear and comfort, often describing these images as nostalgic nightmares or places from dreams I didn’t know I had.

Folklore and the Supernatural Edge of Thresholds

Liminality isn’t just modern — it's ancient. Across cultures, transitional spaces have long been viewed as spiritually significant. Crossroads, doorways, bridges, and riverbanks are often considered the sites where the boundary between the physical and supernatural worlds grows thin.

Examples include the Celtic idea that thresholds are spiritually vulnerable, or the Japanese tradition of twilight as a time when spirits cross over. The episode connects these beliefs to today’s fascination with liminal horror, suggesting that humanity has always seen the in-between as powerful, eerie, and transformative.

Digital Liminality and Analog Horror

The internet has made liminal aesthetics mainstream, especially among younger generations. Low-resolution photos of empty arcades, buzzing vending machines, and foggy highways are now common horror tropes. These images often evoke subtle dread, especially when accompanied by cryptic or surreal captions.

The episode explores how analog horror — YouTube series like Local 58 and Gemini Home Entertainment — draws heavily on these visuals. These series use nostalgic media formats and dreamlike liminal settings to create slow-burning dread that lingers long after watching.

Liminality as Reflection and Release

Not all liminal spaces provoke fear. Some people are drawn to them for peace and contemplation. One listener says they regularly sit in an underground parking garage just to feel like the world has paused. These settings allow for emotional reflection — quiet places where identity, grief, and change can be processed away from the noise of everyday life.

Ultimately, the episode suggests that liminal spaces are metaphors for life’s transitions. They are the backdrop for growth, transformation, and uncertainty. While they may feel weird or creepy, they’re also deeply human — a place to rest on the threshold before moving forward.

Also Mentioned in the Show

• Are Ouija Boards Real?
• Is Bloody Mary Real?
• Necronomicon & Cursed Books Explained

Watch & Listen to the Full Episode

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Licensing Information

• Title: Entry of the Gladiators
• Composer: Julius Fučík
• Library of Congress (Public Domain)
• Podcast theme song version edited/arranged/mixed by Dan Swift

Unless indicated, images appear in their original form.

Endless Mint Corridor

• Artist: AI Generated
• Endless Mint Corridor (Image)
• License: Public Domain

Backrooms Model

• Artist: Huuxloc
• Backrooms Model (Image)
• Backrooms Model (License)

Dead Mall Landmark, Alexandria, VA

• Artist: Payton Chung from DCA, USA
• Dead Mall Landmark, Alexandria, VA (Image)
• Dead Mall Landmark, Alexandria, VA (License)

Royal York Hallway

• Artist: SimonP
• Royal York Hallway (Image)
• Royal York Hallway (License)

Uncanny Valley: Hugo

• Artist: Rain Rabbit
• Uncanny Valley: Hugo (Image)
• Uncanny Valley: Hugo (License)

The following images were generated using AI from MyNinja.ai, NightCafe, or ChatGPT
backroom with monster, trapped minotaur, train station liminal space, dark closet liminal space, cartoon person on a train, airport liminal space, train station liminal space, subway liminal space, blue hole, message in a bottle, mall back hallway

Transcription

*Transcription was automatically generated and may contain errors. 

(Upbeat Music)

MM: Like Alice through the looking west or Dorothy going into Oz, only it's much more boring. So, it's like, I think we're gonna talk about liminal spaces. Yeah, so liminal spaces, they're basically usually like a man-made structure or space, but it's always something that's in between. Something that seems to go on sort of forever. But it's kind of boring, but also kind of creepy. It seems to be like at least the aesthetic of it popularized itself. Like right around the pandemic, it became more probably because we're all living in sort of liminal space of sorts. It became like the internet, like creepypasta version of it is like the back rooms, which often are like empty hallways or like office buildings with nothing in them or like a dead mall kind of idea. And the idea like in video game part, you can kind of clip out of bounds. Like something would happen and you'd fall into it sort of like in a video game when you'd bump out of bounds and fall into a space you're not supposed to be in or like something that's out of the realm of the program. So it's like it does seem like video games have a lot to do with the current like fascination to that culture. It's kind of between. But it's but it actually isn't like just that I mean, there is like maybe the term or definition of the aesthetic isn't the like the current aesthetic isn't like just to that. But it also kind of falls into like there's art and pop culture and stuff that also like kind of emphasize these things. Like I think like some people say like like the Overlook Hotel in The Shining or, you know, I think of like the the Red Room in Twin Peaks, you know, like is this kind of like these creepy like things. It's like a liminal itself is like from the Latin limo, like limo, I believe that it's like it basically means threshold. So you're like it's a you're in between, you know, like something that's like that. I kind of thought about the little art history on you, like in art, like people will say like something like surrealism and stuff like that. But I think of Giorgio DiCirico, like he is like an Italian painter and he would paint these kind of like weird open squares, like spaces and it's like very simple, like it's very simplified. They were like metaphysical paintings is what it's called. And it's often like these kind of weird spaces that just feel like sort of off and sort of empty. And that's like a big, you know, idea of it. The like the actually his video games, the Giorgio's art was inspiration for the when they were doing the video game, Ico. I don't know if any of you are familiar with that or it's like basically Shadow of the Colossus. It's the game that came before Shadow of the Colossus and technically Shadow of the Colossus is a prequel to that game. You know, so it's like but it's that same thing. This weird empty world, strange kind of architecture, dreamlike, you know, stuff. So yeah, so yeah. And yeah, and just as a personal reference, but I'm going through, you know, it's like there's oh, yeah, I forgot to mention, there's like in the middle spaces, sometimes there's also like, you know, in the back rooms thing, there's sometimes like a creature or something sinister happening in there. You know, it does feel kind of like a labyrinth, the dentalist trapping the Minotaur, you know, in the labyrinth kind of idea. Yeah, like I was thinking of my moving, my perfect is turning much more into a transitional liminal space. Everything of my worldly possessions are turning into box plain boxes and apartment reverts back to the beige box that it is. Strange

Baba: creatures start wandering around the place.

MM: I do have I did have a strange, like, highly, some kind of high mineral water that ends up this black goo comes out of my sink. So like venom or something, you know, it's a yeah, so I have which I had to deal with my own, you know, so my own threshold months.

Danny C: Black blob coming out taking form. I was going to be running off screaming down the street.

Baba: So liminal spaces. Yeah, they're creepy. And the kind of not unrelated to all the way back to our friend, the boogeyman, actually, and the the the threshold, you know, the threshold stuff, the threshold keepers. There is something about you said something when you said about the no clipping or the clipping out of the into the back rooms. There's a sense of like, one of the things that makes a liminal space feel like a liminal space is the sense that you're not supposed to be there. So it's like, it's like a mall after hours, but no one else is there. And you're not supposed to be there either. Or like a train station waiting for a train that might not come. You know, I mean, just just waiting there and no one else is there, you know. And I think the the creature thing, the creepy thing about the creature thing is like most liminal spaces are completely vacant of any life, any other people at all. And like, but the creepy thing is like, like water that you don't know what goes under you or a closet that you're staring into the darkness and you don't know what might be there. It's like the uncertainty of this vast, unoccupied world. You know, that might all of a sudden be occupied by a crazy person that jumps out at you on the trains or a werewolf, you know, on a wire.

MM: It's also like the the like being trapped in like a place you can't find your way out of like, you know, like the like, I mean, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's not just like getting lost, but it's getting it's like, and that's why it's like liminal like it's like it's like it's like it's like an in between, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, you know, it's kind of like, well, if you got off of the wrong floor at the hotel and you're wandering around the hallways looking for your room, they all everything looks the same. I've been in plenty of office buildings and stuff where when nobody's there and wandering around and you're just like, it all looks the same. It's like you can turn a corner, go into a room filled with, you know, cubicles and things and it's just like, it's just nobody's there and it doesn't there's nothing to anchor it, you know, into like, you know, it's like, and that's when that becomes creepy. And then if you like, and if you get that feeling to that you're not alone, that's also something creepy, you know, creepy, like when you're like, you know, it's like something that's like sneaky, like if you weird, weird noises probably seem weird or, you know, it's like,

Baba: yeah, but the only more terrifying thing than being completely alone. And is the idea that you might not be

MM: curious.

Danny C: I don't know if you know the psychology behind the idea of why areas are more frightening for lack of better words when there's nobody there as opposed to people are supposed to be there. So like, you know, you go to a mall that is there, you're there after hours or that it's been abandoned, you know, called all this stores have closed. What makes it so much more creepy to the average person when you're fine with people are there but when no one's there is just weird or the same thing with the train station. You know, is there something inherent to it where it's like there could be a sense of danger? Maybe that's why all these people are gone. Like there's something going on with the reptile. The reptile brain is what it's called.

Baba: Yeah.

Danny C: Do any of you know, like from a psychology perspective, like what what is with that?

MM: You know, well, I mean, I like my love venture, I guess. And I'll just say, like, you know, it's kind of like, I think it has to do probably with the fact that it's like it's less like like it's probably like the weird, like lost element, like being like it's probably less like, you know, maybe it has something to do with like, because it's like, especially when it's like all these like things that are like manmade objects, like we're used to those things having occupancy, right? You know, we're used to that being like, you know, like it's similar even to like, you know, why do we like think like houses are scary and haunted when they're empty? You know, it's like we don't think of that as like being scary and haunted when we're throwing like a, you know, huge house party or something like that. You know, it's like like it's like most people aren't like, oh, God, this house is haunted. Like, you know, I mean, like, I mean,

Baba: unless that's the point of the party. Yeah, yeah. So the kind of parties I want to be invited.

MM: But I think like I think the I think the whole idea is probably just like, yeah, like that, like there is there's there's something missing. You know, it's like it is probably like that uncanny valley element to it. You know, I mean, like it's like where it's just like this space is wrong because it's lacking. It's like it's like, you know, it's a little too quiet. It's you know, it's a little too, you know, it's like it's a little too like the things aren't like this isn't how this is supposed to be, you know. I wonder too, like, like the stuff coming from like video games, especially like going back to like early video games, there's the sense of like you couldn't really populate video games with tons of characters that were especially when you're using like early first person games or like maze type, you know, it's like like so everything does feel kind of like sort of sparse and repetitive and weird, you know, and like and that is kind of like, yeah, it's that. So I'm going to say like it probably has to do with like, yeah, just the general feeling like something is off, you know, and that is probably enough to send your stress hormones like up a little bit and get the cortisol pumping, you know.

Baba: I also would say we're in general, we're a very rules based species and we follow rules and we look to others to know what those rules are. And so it's kind of like I think if you're there after hours, you're not supposed to be there. It's like you're without a context for behavior, you know, because all the all the structures been removed. And so like, there's like, there's a weirdness to it. It's like it's like you're outside of like there's this idea that

MM: like you're out of bounds like you're yeah, you're

Baba: on the outer risky edges where the where where you're so I guess it is kind of a safety thing. But I think it's also kind of a I have a feeling that we have this like, okay, this is my own crazy idea about this. I think we we sometimes think that like, there's a sense in which reality has to behave a certain way. And when other people are around, we can trust it more to behave that way. But when you're alone, when you're the one at night looking in the dark mirror, or when you're the one, you know, like hearing the wrapping on the door, or, you know, it doesn't matter what reality is supposed to do. What matters is what it actually does. And so I kind of think like, we feel safer with other people around, because they helped to stabilize. Well, it was a stabilized reality, and keep it from doing weird and scary things.

MM: That's, that was just like, maybe like, I think you're onto something in a sense, like, I think you're hitting like, like, you know, like, we're like social creatures, you know, right, you know, so when you're like, going back to like, the things of that pop culture, like idea of like, you know, what's scary about the shining, like, yes, there's hauntings of things going on there. But it's just more like, you're basically alone, and you're losing your mind. I know, technically, as families are, but like, you're in this space, that's just empty, and you're just there for a long time. And I mean, like, like, you know, it's like, it's not just cabin fever, it's like, you're just it's just like this slow, like, lack of social, you know, anything, right? It's like, so if and then probably why the like, you know, not to be talking about things, but like, the pandemic thing, probably why this game is like kind of popularity around that time, or, or at least more forefront in the consciousness is because like, that's kind of also what we're doing a lot of, you know, like, this is like, there's people there, like, there's we're also sort of alone a lot. And this like, this kind of like, the space, this empty space that's supposed to have social life in it, that's now doesn't just ends up feeling more like that kind of madness kind of descent into sort of a madness, you know, it's like, it's like, like, because there is no social stuff. Like you said, there's no social cues, there's no social things like it's like, but there's just no society, there's no buddy, like, it's like, you're just there, you know, and it's like, so it does feel like, you know, it's weird.

Baba: Yeah, it all does become kind of unstable. It's probably interestingly enough, it's probably also the reason why, like, you know, if you're gonna, you know, do shady things, like, be up at night with a Ouija board, you know, or, you know, if you're gonna like, crack out the Necronomicon and read from it, like, it's probably better. But maybe not better. But to not have people around to get that, you know, that cracking, but it's probably also better to have people around Necronomicon is a different conversation, but you know, that being said, the notion of these unoccupied spaces, these like threshold spaces, it's, to me, it also plays on this idea of like the horror of time, like something that like time, like, if you think about like, a time when you are anxious, and you were just waiting for time to pass, so you could get an answer on something. And like, think about that and think about like, being at that train station, and not knowing if that train is going to come, like that, like the terror of trappedness in this desert of nothingness, from which you can't really escape. And there's no one that can give you answers. And it's all you're on your own. You know, it sounds like life.

MM: Here's a question, just a real listen to a different, like, do you guys have like, and feel free if like, anyone wants to throw that in the comments, things like, they would have like also like dream spaces that are like, sort of these repetitive, they're like, it's not like a, it's not a space that really exists, but it might be like sort of an amalgam of it. But it's like, but it's also a place that you kind of keep returning to, like in your dreams. And a lot of times, like, like, I know in mind, it like, it often feels very like, when that happens, it is a kind of empty, weird place, you know, like, it does have like a very like abandoned mall, kind of like weird, like, not arcade, like video game arcade, but like arcade type, you know, type of structure or anything, you know, where things are connected, and there's big spaces in between. And it's just like kind of weird, you know, but yeah, it's like, I don't know if either of you guys have that kind of phenomenon.

Baba: I've got a particular church in and it's like kind of off to the right of this weird bridge. And I don't think it's a real world church, but it's consistent enough that I've seen it in a few different, but in many dreams. And in fact, in one, it's always closed. So it's always like after hours or whatever. But in one, me and my brother Pat were smoking a cigarette. I don't smoke cigarettes. But in this, in this tree, we were smoking a cigarette outside of this, where we inside of this little chapel that was part of the church. So I've kind of been in part of it. Now that's a weird liminal space. Churches after hours. I used to work for the church. Churches after hours, when they're dark. Oh yeah, that is a creepy space. And those, but those also deal with like ghosty things because, you know, funerals and religions kind of about ghosts.

MM: And versus like the standard, like liminal space, there's iconography that it's very much like unless you're in like a very weird clinical version of the church. There's like, yeah, this is where the Catholic church, so you got statues and stained glass windows, potentially, you know, like definitely some cross or crucifix type thing alters. Like there's

Baba: definitely candles that were like the candles there were the electric candles. So they just put off this red glow. Yeah. So that's the sanctuary candle that's always lit.

MM: Versus say like, you know, like a very large rest stop bathroom that is like you're the only one that yeah, like on a turnpike or something. Yeah.

Baba: And then you see that's the thing. Yeah. You can have something that's like lit, but weirdly lit. You know, I mean, Resident Evil does it really well with the flickering fluorescent bulb. Yeah.

MM: It's like the whole, that's like the sort of David Lynch elements of it. Yeah. Like everything is just kind of like it's like, oh, well, this is like weird. Like it's just like this place just looks off, even though it is like a normal place or something. Yeah. It's a. Yeah.

Danny C: Some of the churches, airports are also another fun one when they're like empty late at night. You know, earlier talking about like, I think I think kind of like snapping and snapping out, I think is clipping like, yeah.

MM: Yeah.

Danny C: Like being on the threshold of dreaming, you know, where I mean, it's not the same thing, I don't think. But it's like when you're when you're like, you're not awake, you're not asleep yet, but like the brain starts to go and you might like hear things. You might like start to dream a little bit, but like you're not really asleep. It's almost like a day, at least this is what's like for me when I start to go to sleep, you know, start to like almost like a daydream kind of thing. And then like, you may actually drift off. You might not. You're like, you know, sounds or voices or something like that. But it's like, you know, like a weird like you're not you're not awake. You're not asleep either. You're kind of somewhere like in between. It's like weird, like mental.

Baba: Go, yeah. Yeah. Hypnogogia. It's and then there's I think there's some called like hypnopampia or something like that. That's at the other end when you're coming out of sleep.

MM: You might be onto something, Dan, with like the like kind of like what's maybe weird about like this thing like, you know, like I was saying, like, like having weird dream spaces have like maybe it's just like the weirdness of the space. The thing that makes you kind of scared is also it's like, like it's like you're maybe it's like the feeling like you are in a dream or you are. And that's why it's like this, like, you know, and like you're saying, like threshold, like it's like in between waking and sleeping, you know, is like a sort of threshold state. You know, it is this like it's like your brain is living. Because you're neither doing one thing or the other. You know, it's like you're you know, you're you're kind of like you're just like in between and like you get like or the airport. What is an airport? It's in between space. No one. I mean, some airports have hotels and things that but no one's like, well, I live at the airport. There's a big community of culture that happens at this airport. It's like it doesn't have that. It's just it's the train station. The same thing like now granted, maybe some people in New York back in the day lived in abandoned subway tunnels. But most of the time it's just like it's all about in between. You know, it's all about this transition. It's all about this kind of transition is we like certainty and predictability and transition is uncertainty. It's like it's psychologically is something that messes with you. You know, it's like, you know, we don't like uncertainty. We don't like predictability and transition is all of those things. It's like the transitory space, you know.

Baba: And actually like that. Once again, like the wiggly reality of the dream world, you know, it's that I think when you when you when you're in those liminal spaces, the rules are suspended. That's where Mothman hangs out. And Chupacabra is chilling.

MM: Well, maybe not the jury. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe not the Jersey Devil, though. He's in the pie. He's in the pie. He is. I mean, I've definitely. You can say it makes me like 72 and it's pretty sparse.

Baba: Do you know about the blue pools of the of the pine barons? There are these things that are called the the blue lakes or the blue pools. We're going to go everywhere. Yes, the blue lakes or the blue pools. The idea is they they go somewhere like you should not go into these things. They're there. They have like a bluish look to them. People sometimes go in. They don't look that deep, but they actually have very, very strong current or undertow or whatever. The way these the actual geological makeup of the area, it causes this very strong pole phenomenon. And so people go missing there from time to time. But there are these legendary things like almost like little pebble beaches and they're in the pine barons. But but from a magic perspective, tell people to do some magic now. That would be a wonderful way of sending a message to wherever, you know, throw a message in a bottle with some kind of request. Throw in these blue pools and just see what happens.

MM: Well, it doesn't come out in the back rooms. I don't know.

Baba: That's the thing.

MM: I've seen that for another episode.

Baba: Or maybe design design a cryptid of your own and just see if it shows up in the world. Just throw it into the pools. Maybe that's where they come from.

Danny C: I'm just going to say, I believe that's how you create them. You just get it.

Baba: They come from the pine barons. Oh, Jersey Devil's the boss.

MM: Look like Pokemon. Can we get some real life?

Baba: I'm related to the Jersey Devil, actually, by marriage. You guys marriage. It's on Sharon's side. Anyway, so you're good side.

Danny C: Oh, man. Climbing up on my roof. Pumps.

Baba: How do we get out of this back into the liminal?

MM: Yeah, let's let's don't flip out of the pine barons and back into the back rooms. All right.

Baba: Do you want to go there? Do you want to go to the back rooms?

MM: Do I? I don't know. Yeah, probably not. I mean, it might have already been there for all I know. I mean, like I've worked in some weird ass places that are pretty empty. I mean, it's also similar to like, you know, at the mall that you go behind, like, you know, like it's like there's probably also this other thing that's you. That's like the behind the scenes thing is also like a just a weird place. You know, it's like it's kind of like behind the scenes of anything kind of. It's like changes the like, you know, it's like the facade collapses. And maybe that's another weird unsettling thing. Right. It's like, you know, when you like go, but like the whole like the tunnels and Disneyland or whatever, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, well, that's the whole thing is it's all magic. It's like the Magic Kingdom. Whether you go back there, it's just like, well, no, it's just a bunch of utility tunnels and junk and they ferry people back between things under there. That's like some people can travel quickly through like, you know, the spaces. It's not very cool. It's actually very not cool. It's like we're behind in like even in the mall, like, you know, you have the shops and then when you go behind the view at the back door of the shops and you have that little hallway tunnel thing that's before you end up in like the loading docks or something or like in a store, the stock room that's just like the store is all bright and it's got all the product out and you go. It's like which they're kind of already a weird like of capitalist liminal space. But then you go into the other thing and it's just boxes and nothing. And, you know, loading docks. And it's all all the

Baba: most horrifying liminal spaces.

MM: Yeah. Yeah. All the work to. Yeah, like all the best. Like all the all the all the literally the facade is taken down. It's, you know, you're behind the scenes at the movie like the you know, it's like like everything that's off of out of frame is like the cameras and the like, you know, the set is just plywood. It's like,

Baba: you know, I think that's the thing. Again, it's the idea of like, yeah, like that reality is actually made of stories that we agree on and then like, but we have to be around to agree on them. And like otherwise, it's kind of like, yeah, the facade falls down and it's just kind of. But you see, I think in a liminal space that falls down, that makes it creepy is. It's a ghosty thing. It's like it's it's the thing, you know, it's the thing you're not supposed to believe in because you're like, you're a grown adult. You're not supposed to believe in ghosts or Bloody Mary or monsters, you know. But it's like, yeah, but like you might not tell somebody that you are like freaked out by something that I was actually putting something in the closet last night. And I was thinking about this because I was it's like just pure black darkness. And I'm reaching in to put this thing in there. And I'm like, I have no idea what's in there. I mean, I think I do, you know, based on my last experience of it. But but actually, even the things at the edge of your peripheral vision that seem to have color, not actually, that part of your eye doesn't actually see color like that. It's the distribution of rods and cones in the front of your eye in the Lord, what's the name of that? Foveal, foveal range that it's they're the ones that really see color. Everything over here is hallucinated. It's the brain just remembering and predicting what it thinks is over there. So a lot of our a lot of our reality is constructed. It's generalized and and shaped by what we expect to see. So is that just I mean, here's a metaphysical question. Is that just the how we construct our reality? Or is that how so-called reality is constructed? And when there are a few fewer minds around to construct it, do the rules change? Or is it just like, well, yeah, well, there are only three. So we can't believe your story because like, I don't know, because people tend to freak out when they're on the a few of them for other reasons that are clearly explainable. Where do the rules change? I mean, how the how would you know? Anyway, there's a can of worms.

Danny C: And of course, I'm concerned that that makes complete sense, because like that when you're having your house party in the haunted house and the ghosts don't show up, you know, it's because there are too many people there, you know, the two people are saying it doesn't exist. But when you're there by yourself, you know, midnight, they try to go to sleep and the the the the framed, you know, the mirror flies off the wall or something like that, you know, it's because the rules aren't keeping it together. It's just you when you have those other people there, it holds all together.

MM: Well, that's just a guy that died at one of your previous house parties. She danced a little too hard.

Baba: Earlier, he had that same obsequious manner that was never mind. Never mind. I think it's it's just the fear of that, which is beyond our control. That's beyond our ability to perceive and govern. It's the feral. It's the wild, you know, and and yeah, and and it and it.

MM: But you're the only one there. You're the feral and the one.

Baba: And that's the thing. And you're on and you're on your own. And that's something we're not used to. We're everywhere we turn. Man is born free and everywhere he is in chains, you know. But like, yeah. And then what happens when you don't have chains? What you going to do? You know, and and that's when the story crumbles. And you're the only one that gets to say. What's possible? You know, what do you really think is possible when your friends aren't around?

MM: You know, I guess I was like, you were in a big enough mall or your big foot outing friends and it was empty. It would be a good place to skateboard, you know, like, obviously. They don't have to worry about anybody there.

Danny C: And so you like fall into a fracture, your leg or something.

MM: You fall into one of these empty fountains that they haven't been like, you know, like it's not it's less Tony Hawk pro skater and more just like, you know, abandoned unsafe. You know, it's like an

Baba: insured mall to have, you know, maybe the scarier part than the mall itself.

Danny C: So much butter in the game and in real life.

Baba: You don't have to fill out these.

MM: The mystery of the back rooms is just lack of care and and lack of insurance. No, I'm responsible for this.

Baba: And that's where that's that again, that makes me want to summon a monster that makes it more interesting.

MM: So should we should we wrap this up? Give a little ranking on this. So it's I think it's

Baba: who wants to who wants to start it. I guess we want to frame it.

MM: Yeah, topic. I'll give it a give it a go. So like obviously recognition, like I think obviously the most spaces be recognized. They they're in reality. They're in our dreams. They're kind of everywhere. So I mean, like it's like it is a thing. Scary. Yeah. Like the lone in a vast empty thing. I mean, like I've been in enough of these kinds of kinds of spaces by myself, you know, in the past and like at night, you know, and it is just weird. It's like it's just it's just unsettling. I mean, if not for listening to like podcasts or music or something or audio books, it becomes very weird if you were just there hearing like, you know, yourself walk around doing things. It's like, yeah, it's it's strange. And then if someone shows up, it's even scarier. You know, it's a so yeah, so I think it's pretty scary. And do you want to encounter it? Well, I mean, I'm sort of right now living through it as my whole space. So I think it's a yeah, I don't I think sometimes you just don't have a choice. Like, you know, it's like we end up in we sort of do end up out of bounds now. But I want to end up really out of bounds, like where like you can't come back. Like you are stuck in the back rooms or something. I don't think so. I don't I like being I like I actually I like a walking around the city with a lot of people in it. I think I find it to be something that feels good. You know, it's like, you know, I like, you know, like, I mean, even in that sense, like you're in a city walking around, there's a lot of people that you turn down a street and like nobody's on that street. That's like, you know, yeah, I like I don't know. It's a so maybe I'm a little agoraphobic or something. It's a big. Yeah. So I'll give them little spaces. My ranking, I'm going to say it's a four out of five monsters for me. So, yeah, Dan, do we kick it off to you?

Danny C: Sure, sure. Recognition. Yeah, I think it's very recognizable, you know, with these repeating spaces, whether it's, you know, an office building, you know, you have the you know, a mall, an airport, you know, the concept, you know, very recognizable. Scary. I don't find them that scary, actually. I kind of I kind of like the so the one thing I will say, though, is if you are in an area that you don't have a lot of visibility. So if it's more of like a legit maze, I would find that a little more unnerving. But when it comes to like an empty mall or something, I'm game for that. I think that's pretty cool. Same thing like, you know, office, whatever. They're definitely real, you know, as you talked about before, encounter, we encounter them every day. I think we didn't talk about this at all, but the idea of like the the mental liminal space where it's like going through the same thing over and over and over again, like a lot of people's days, you know, with that lack of variety, that's something that is a little more frightening to me than the physical empty liminal spaces. But it comes to the monsters. I'm going to put it right in the middle. I'm going to say it's three.

Baba: I don't believe in liminal spaces. I don't think they do this. They're not real. They're not scientific. So liminal spaces. Yeah, obviously. Yeah, I'm going to take a slightly different spin on this because. Yeah, we recognize them. I think they are. I think they're kind of I think they're kind of creepy. They can be, but they can be also creepy in a good way, because like sometimes I'm at like a train station. No one's around and I'm waiting for a train, I think could actually be kind of cool if something weird happened, you know, because and this is my take. Why we find them creepy, I think because on some level, we know that this whole thing's alive and that when no one's watching, it might do some weird things and reveal that it's alive. It might drop the big charade that says that it's not intelligent and alive. And I think that's what's going on. I think that's why I think we all know it deep down. The whole thing is alive and full of weirdness. And when no one's around, it might get weird for you. Remember that next time you reach into a dark closet. Step in a puddle or step in a puddle or next time

MM: or have weird black stuff growing out of your sink or

Baba: near a mirror in the dark or next time you need. Help from your friends in the Necronomicon. You need to to respect liminal spaces. How's that? So what's your rank? Four monsters, four monsters because because of the uncertainty factor and because lots of things can be liminal spaces and because the sheer terror of being stuck somewhere forever with no escape. Yeah, that's pretty freaking scary. I'd summon something just to to do me in unless you just wind up in another liminal space, in which case forget it. I don't know.

Danny C: So let me let me pose this question. Is this still a liminal space if you're in an area that you are enjoying? So, for instance, say like take any liminal space, you know, you're stuck there. Can't get out. But you have like all the pop tarts you could eat, assuming one loves pop tarts, just hypothetical. Is it still considered a scary liminal space because you can't escape it? Or is it like is that kind of bliss?

MM: Well, I think like, no, I think like I think the idea is like you wouldn't have those things like that. It's like everything is just transitional. Right. You know, it's just like it's like kind of you going getting off of one flight and then running to catch your other flight. But it's just you running through the airport and then you get to the next flight and then you have to get off of that and run to catch the next flight. Like there's no stopping in between. It's not you know, it's like there's no you don't have time. There's no vending machines. There's no like all that stuff is gone. You know, it's just like you're just like it's just the you know, there may be computers in the office, but none of them work. You know, like nothing's there. You know, it's just like it's just like it's just that kind of, you know.

Baba: Well, it's like this like, yeah, this

Baba: deserted reality of any pleasure, I guess.

MM: Yeah, or just this is like, yeah, it's like and hopefully you get out the other side and you make it out and then you end up somewhere, you know, like else.

Baba: I think you transform it from being a liminal space if you find joy. So maybe that's the takeaway for the listeners today, is to carry joy in your heart wherever you go. That no liminal space is really a space. I mean, or just

MM: go places where people are failing.

Baba: Yeah, because otherwise it might wiggle and get weird.