Crop Circles Explained? Mystery, Hoaxes, and Unanswered Questions

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The Enduring Fascination With Crop Circles

In this episode of the Wondering Monsters Podcast, the hosts take a deep and often humorous dive into one of the most debated paranormal phenomena of the modern era: crop circles. What begins as a conversation about coffee jitters quickly evolves into an expansive exploration of history, conspiracy theories, strange physics, government coverups, UFOs, and the possibility that some crop circles may genuinely defy explanation.

The discussion opens with the observation that crop circles are far older than many people realize. While most people associate them with the media frenzy of the 1980s and 1990s, references to mysterious flattened fields reportedly stretch back centuries. The hosts mention stories tied to medieval Europe, including references linked to the Mowing Devil and accounts allegedly dating back to the 9th century. Historical figures such as Robert Plott and John Leyland are also referenced as examples of scholars who documented unusual formations in fields long before the modern UFO era.

This historical angle immediately raises a central question for the episode: if crop circles existed centuries before modern pop culture and science fiction, can all of them truly be dismissed as hoaxes?

The Hoax Theory and the Famous Board and String Explanation

One of the biggest themes in the episode is the widespread belief that crop circles were effectively debunked in the early 1990s. The hosts discuss the infamous duo Doug Bower and Dave Chorley, two English men who publicly claimed responsibility for many crop circles using simple tools like boards, rope, and wire. For decades, this confession has served as the mainstream explanation for the phenomenon. According to the popular narrative, the mystery was solved: pranksters had simply fooled the world.

However, the podcast hosts challenge that explanation repeatedly throughout the conversation. They point out that when Doug and Dave demonstrated their methods publicly, the resulting circles often appeared sloppy, asymmetrical, and visibly damaged. The wheat showed signs of physical crushing rather than the smooth woven patterns found in many famous formations. The hosts also question the logistics behind some of the more famous crop circles. Complex formations appeared overnight, sometimes in rainy conditions, without footprints, mud trails, or signs of large teams operating in darkness. Some formations covered enormous areas with mathematically precise geometry that would seemingly require professional surveying equipment and substantial manpower.

The conversation becomes especially skeptical regarding claims that Doug and Dave created highly sophisticated formations near heavily monitored locations such as Stonehenge. The hosts repeatedly return to the idea that the official hoax narrative may have been overly convenient.

The Stonehenge Surprise and Mathematical Crop Circles

Several of the most compelling crop circles discussed in the episode involve advanced mathematical designs. One particularly famous example is the 1996 Stonehenge Surprise, a massive fractal pattern known as a Julia Set formation that appeared near Stonehenge.

The hosts are fascinated by the sheer complexity of the design. Fractals are advanced mathematical structures, and the formation appeared within an extremely limited time window. Witness accounts suggested the formation emerged overnight despite poor weather conditions and the area being under regular observation.

The podcast also explores the famous Milk Hill spiral formation, which reportedly contained hundreds of perfectly formed circles arranged in intricate geometric patterns. The scale and precision of these formations lead the hosts to question whether small teams with boards and rope could realistically produce them under cover of darkness.

An especially intriguing point raised during the episode involves crop circles that appear to encode mathematical constants or binary information. One example allegedly represented the value of pi to multiple decimal places. Another referenced the famous Arecibo Message, the radio transmission humanity sent into space in the 1970s.

In 2001, a crop formation appeared that many believed was a direct response to the Arecibo Message. The hosts discuss how the formation mirrored the structure of the original transmission while altering details about biology and planetary information. Although they acknowledge the possibility that talented humans created it, they remain fascinated by the symbolism and complexity involved.

Microwave Radiation, Burned Wheat, and Ghost Circles

One of the most controversial parts of the discussion centers on the physical effects allegedly found in certain crop circles. The hosts discuss reports from researchers who claim that some formations contain wheat with unusual biological properties. According to the episode, certain crop circles display expulsion cavities in the plant nodes — tiny ruptures resembling popcorn that some researchers attribute to microwave radiation. The hosts speculate about how such effects could occur naturally or artificially, while also noting the difficulty of explaining them through ordinary hoax methods.

They also discuss claims that wheat within some crop circles grows faster, taller, or contains higher protein levels. Another phenomenon mentioned is the so-called ghost circle, where crop patterns allegedly reappear in future growing seasons after the original formation has disappeared. These details push the conversation beyond simple prank theories and into speculation about atmospheric plasma, electromagnetic anomalies, or even advanced technology.

The hosts joke about hypothetical microwave backpacks carried by pranksters but repeatedly acknowledge how impractical such technology would have been decades ago, especially in remote muddy fields during nighttime operations.

Natural Phenomena, Ball Lightning, and Plasma Theories

Not every explanation explored in the episode is paranormal. The hosts spend considerable time discussing natural theories involving plasma vortices, ball lightning, and unusual atmospheric conditions.

Some researchers have proposed that electrically charged plasma formations could flatten crops into geometric patterns. The hosts mention that certain regions where crop circles frequently appear may contain environmental conditions favorable to unusual electromagnetic activity.

However, the group remains divided on whether these explanations are sufficient. While plasma or weather phenomena might explain simpler circles or burned patterns, they struggle to see how natural forces could consistently create highly detailed mathematical images, faces, or coded messages.

The discussion highlights a recurring theme throughout the episode: no single theory fully explains every crop circle case.

Government Coverups and Operation Blackbird

The episode also ventures into conspiracy territory with discussions about government disinformation campaigns. One particularly interesting case mentioned is Operation Blackbird, an alleged collaboration involving military observers monitoring crop circle activity in the United Kingdom.

According to the hosts, a monitored field suddenly produced a crop circle overnight, only for investigators to discover an astrology board placed in the center — seemingly designed to make the entire phenomenon appear ridiculous. This leads the conversation into broader speculation about whether governments intentionally encourage simplistic explanations to discourage public interest in unexplained phenomena. The hosts compare this idea to theories surrounding UFO secrecy and Area 51, where misinformation may be used to discredit genuine mysteries.

Even when the hosts disagree about the likelihood of government involvement, they consistently return to the idea that crop circles occupy an uncomfortable space between science, folklore, and unexplained reality.

Folklore, Fairies, and Ancient Beliefs

The podcast also explores the folklore surrounding mysterious field patterns. Long before UFO theories existed, unusual flattened areas in fields were often associated with spirits, demons, or fairy activity. The hosts discuss legends involving braided horse tails, fairy mischief, and liminal spaces tied to ancient sites like Stonehenge. These stories suggest that humanity has long interpreted strange natural events through supernatural frameworks. This blending of folklore and modern paranormal belief becomes one of the episode’s most compelling themes. Whether the explanation involves plasma physics, hoaxers, extraterrestrials, or ancient spiritual beliefs, crop circles seem to occupy a strange psychological space where humans attempt to impose meaning on the unknown.

A Mystery That Refuses to Disappear

By the end of the episode, the hosts do not arrive at a definitive conclusion — and that uncertainty is precisely what makes the discussion compelling. Some crop circles are almost certainly hoaxes. Others may be linked to unusual natural processes. Yet a handful remain difficult to explain due to their precision, speed of appearance, or strange physical characteristics.

The conversation repeatedly emphasizes how quickly public interest faded after the board and string explanation became mainstream. The hosts argue that the social narrative around crop circles shifted dramatically, causing many people to dismiss the topic without investigating the stranger cases more deeply.

Ultimately, the episode presents crop circles not as a solved mystery, but as a layered phenomenon involving folklore, science, art, psychology, and possibly something genuinely unknown. Whether they are the work of pranksters, plasma storms, hidden technologies, or something beyond current understanding, crop circles continue to provoke curiosity decades after the media spotlight faded.

Links from the Show

• What are Liminal Spaces and Why Do They Feel So Weird?
• Are Theaters REALLY Haunted Places?
• Bigfoot, Sasquatch, and the Wild Man Tradition
• Curses, Haunted Dolls, and Cursed Treasure
• Leprechauns: Real History of Irish Folklore, Fairy Law, and Hidden Treasure
• History of Witches, Witchcraft, and Folklore
• Are Real Psychics Actually Able To Predict The Future?

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Licensing Information

• Title: Entry of the Gladiators
• Composer: Julius Fučík
• Library of Congress (Public Domain)
• Podcast theme song version edited/arranged/mixed by Dan Swift

Unless indicated, images appear in their original form.

Images were generated using AI from MyNinja.ai, NightCafe, lenso.ai, Gemini, or ChatGPT

Transcription

*Transcription was automatically generated and may contain errors.

(Music)

Danny C: Just looking forward to having all of my coffee.

Baba: Well, you can be jealous, I'm just nervous. I'm just...

Danny C: Jittery.

Baba: Jittery.

WDG: So we jump into this, like people jump into fields when they're making crop circles with their...

Baba: Like they pole vault into fields in their cities?

WDG: Yeah.

Baba: Let's do it! Let's do it, but let's land presumably better than they did.

Danny C: Obviously. Obviously, because we are much younger and much more nimble than those in their 60s.

Baba: Much more nimble.

Danny C: crop circles are very interesting. They allegedly go back to the 9th century. There's like the bishop of France. Apparently there was some kind of reference to it there. You had 1686, Robert Plott was a professor at Oxford, talked about crop circles, I believe he referred to as the mowing devil, as these things showed up in the fields. You had John Leyland back during Henry VIII times. I mean, these go back pretty, pretty far. And if you listen to modern explanations, they're all over the map. You know, they have people using boards, you have ball lightning, you have wind, weather phenomenon, all kinds of things. They're weird. Sometimes you hear that these stalks will continue to grow sideways once they're flattened. Sometimes the... So when wheat grows, as it gets ready to harvest, I guess the top kind of like arcs over and that's very natural. And you go to unbend it and it kind of goes, whoop, like flips back over. But allegedly in fields where supposedly the crop circle has a non-human origin, they actually straighten out and you go to bend them and they go, whoop, they just point back up again. So very, very weird. In my research, they say that all of them can be explained by natural phenomenon. But I don't know. It's very, very interesting.

Baba: Yeah, yeah, it is. And it's... I mean, like that, it's all over the place. Because like, if you would have asked me six weeks ago, my thoughts on crop circles right off the bat, I would have been like, well, they're weird and interesting. I think a lot of them have been confirmed hoaxes. And I specifically would have been like, yeah, there's something where people get like, rope and a board and they kind of walk along and do it. But that I think just goes to show you how well that storyline has sort of coded things. Because we should get into that later talking about like the wheat and the... Like the various things that happen that are like really hard slash impossible to fake. Because that like kind of blew my mind. Popcorn, you know, we'll get to that.

WDG: We'll come back to that. I definitely believe like in the, not like the hoax phenomenon, but there are a lot of people who do go out and make crop circles. Like there's people who are like, that kind of is like an art thing, it's a professional thing. But the full like hoax theory that all of them are hoaxes, even the ones that like exhibit say like they're in more remote locations or they're in, you know, like they have that, like they look like they've been burnt or, you know, they have some kind of like radiation, like there's like some kind of microwave thing. And it's like, you can't factor that into the hoax like phenomenon easily, especially when you are dealing with like the, you know, the two guys from England, they're like, we made most of the crop circles. And like we did, you know, like in the 80s and 90s or whatever, and then they came forward. It's like to...

Danny C: Well, wait, let's give credit where credit's due. Dave Churley and Doug Bauer. Okay, yeah. I believe are the names.

Baba: I was gonna call them Doug and Dave.

WDG: So there's difference between like the ones that like occur that way. And it's like, you know, where it's like, okay, you can do this this way, like and people have gotten really good at it and like more professional over the years. And like, you know, about doing certain things, like, but it's like that. But at the time, if you wanted to also add in the like difficulty of adding in the like, the crop circles that are more like burped down exhibit like the radio, like the, you know, kind of microwave thing to make like a, I was like, trying to like theory this out with like, if you want to make a portable microwave rig, right? Because there's this like, ideas like, whoa, whoa, they could have just had a backpack with some kind of portable microwave ring. But it like that, even like given the technology of like the 80s, like, first of all, like, the kind of like energy you'd have to have with it, like batteries are not as sophisticated then, like you're looking at, you know, your, you know, car batteries, like these kinds of things, or you'd have to have a generator, you know, like, and that's not to explain that. Most of the microwave, like, sort of like military tech at the time, was on like trucks and stuff. This is not like portable things. And it'd be like, really dangerous. Like, like, it's like, so, so then to drag that stuff out into a field, you're gonna leave trails. And if you're trying to do it covertly, and like, and you're gonna be like, why

Baba: so that some specialist researcher can discover something that would have implied radiation? Like, why would you?

WDG: Yeah, yeah, it's like, it's like really like giving this other level to it that like, and no one's confirmed the existence of these things, even the people who've claimed that they were like behind these, you know, different stuff. So it's like, so there is like this kind of variant, you know, like,

Baba: I mean, we're like, we're 40 years later, and these things haven't shown up in military technology or things to get rid of bugs in your

WDG: yard or something, you know, I mean, or just like something you can pick up at Home Depot, you know, my microwave, back, bird crop circle.

Baba: Yeah, so like, if these things were around, apparently, they are only useful for faking crops.

WDG: So yeah, yeah, it's like,

Baba: and like the underpants gnomes, it's like, where does this pay off?

WDG: There's certain areas where these tend to show up more, right? Like, the crop circles tend to be in like, particular areas. We can talk a little bit about like, the, like, ball lightning, plasma theory, and it's like, that kind of makes sense. Like, like the like, the ones in like, say Brazil, it has all the environmental conditions for something like creating like, you know, ball lightning stuff, like, it's just like, you know, and it's like, so there's different areas where that is. But if you think about like, these did show up in England a lot, probably. And then, if you were people that were exposed to these, then you might want to go and start faking some of them to, you know, be like, it's almost like the kind of like, art imitates natural phenomenon, like something that would have to, you would have to had been exposed to, to know that they exist in order to like, you know, I don't think it's like to fake it, you know, it's like, and it seems like there's different regions where these things happen more often than other places, like, you know, like, it's, you know, so

Baba: just, and so like, the thing, the thing with me is like, okay, you've got two, you got, you got a couple factors here, which are like, problematic riddles, if it's going to be like, okay, well, these were just people with lots of time. First one is that actually, when Doug and Dave, the aforementioned board string guys in England, so bored that they got a board and a string and made crop circles, they weren't very good at it when they actually demonstrated it, their, their crop circles were always out of alignment. They're going, even when they're going according to plan, the one dude like makes like a circle twice as big as it's supposed to be and then just kind of bounces, like, it, they're, the things are damaged, they're clearly damaged on one side of the plant, where a board would be pressing them down, you know, and so it's like, they're janky and just wonky kind of creations. And then there are these things we mentioned the pole vaulting, they claim to have done this one, the chief's foot head crop circle, which was a 1983 phenomenon, and they've got this diagram that shows, oh yeah, we did it. But in the diagram, it shows these foot trails that go to it. Well, and they, that wasn't how it was in the real world. And so like, they're like, well, how'd you do that? And they said, oh, we pole vaulted in and presumably out of this field and did this thing. And although we can't do them in alignment during the day, with no need to remain secret. At night, we do them in perfect alignment. And there are these elaborate things, it's, it doesn't add up. And it just re it just screams of like, these dudes were paid.

WDG: Or they just wanted the attention. They were just like, oh, we like you know, you but apparently they were paid for their story. Okay.

Danny C: Yeah, they were they were paid half from what I from what I recall from my research, like half up front, and they never got the second half, and they ended up suing whoever to get the rest of their money.

WDG: You think like, you would have like also sort of arrest these guys for like destructive property or find them or something, you know, considering they

Baba: were being paid by the government to use the they were admitting

WDG: to go to a room. There are things now where people do make crap circles for commercial endeavors, they'll survey the areas, they'll, you know, lay the thing, they'll have designs, and they'll make them, you know, so they can, for whatever that is, like an advertisement type of deal, you know, something like that album covers, you know, that they like Led Zeppelin album covers or whatever, like, people will make crop circles and photograph them and do a thing, you know, but it's like the, it's like, but that's, but they're not doing that under cover of night. They don't have to sneak in the fields.

Baba: They're, they're not, they don't have to like, people aren't going to come and look at the plants and be like, nah,

WDG: it's made from like a thing, you know, it's just like, you know, it's like, also it could be like a tourist thing. It's like, you know, it's, it's good stuff, you know, I mean, like, it attracts people to at least in back in maybe I don't know how much recently people care about crop circles too much anymore. But, you know, it's like, I know they still happen, but it's not, I feel like, I feel like it's like we tidy that up, the board string guys solved the problem, therefore, you know,

Baba: they like, solve the problem of the social discourse around this stuff. And that's kind of the thing. All right, so I'm going to go as I do, I'm going to go off course a little bit.

Danny C: Talk about are you going to pole vault elsewhere? I got pole vault elsewhere.

WDG: I'm going to look at your field and I

Baba: got landed in area 51. Because how else do you get in there? Pole vaulting. So, because all these unidentified things are flying in, you just have to look weird when you're coming in, like you might be a spaceship pole vault and just kind of, you know, take a weird shape. And so there's this idea that, okay, so area 51. What we're not gonna get too into this. One version is like, oh, they're alien things going on there, real extraterrestrial space alien stuff. And we have maybe their bodies, we have their technology, we're building their technology or whatever. Another thing is, no, it's just experimental aircraft. And there's a story about aliens that surrounds it. Because that's a convenient way to cover up experimental aircraft because like, yeah, no one would be interested in aliens. And then you've got this idea that it's experimental aircraft. And the people that are working on it are told it's actually alien stuff. So that when they go out there and try and say, hey, we're working on this high tech stuff, it's from the aliens, it's like, they're automatically discredited. So anything they say is like, well, I don't want to listen to this guy about, you know, these anti gravity spin devices that they're working on. Because he's talking about aliens, like, he's obviously an idiot, right? So there's this idea that a lot of this stuff gets kind of baked together. So it automatically discredits the people revealing these government secrets. Okay, so, and there are all kinds of mutations around that we don't have to get into all that. But if we go back now to the crop circles, I made it back. Guys, I made it back with my pole vault, I can do it.

WDG: Your circle's wonky. Oh, I think you need to

Baba: start everything about me is wonky.

WDG: You got to get this like you got to get their fractals down a little better.

Baba: So that's how you know, it's me. It's my it's my fingerprint. So now here we are at the crop circle thing. And it's like, well, okay, if there's a real I just say real unexplained phenomenon, or phenomenon still under investigation by by the government, let's just say by the government, what would be the benefit of throwing people off the trail? And like, well, there would be some presumed benefit to getting to the bottom of the story without other people knowing what's going on, or without other people interfacing with this in a way that makes the investigation harder, like so if we just take it to something like Bigfoot, because why not? And let's just say, well, the government wants to throw us off from the truth of Bigfoot, because they're so close to Bigfoot. And then here come these campers coming through, you know, looking for Bigfoot, and then they scare them off, and they got to start over again. All right, and you can create like a sophisticated argument around that with crop circles for why why the government might want might not want other researchers mucking up the research. But then the other thing is like, well, if nobody believes in this stuff, then they they'll abandon ship. And then the government can get to the bottom of it and use whatever they discover for their nefarious government purposes, which I think is like the leading edge, like when it comes to like, why do governments cover stuff up?

WDG: It's like, well, maybe like, can we just say different, like, maybe just a whole slightly less like, you know, the government has some level of competency, you know, and reason for doing things. Maybe like, here's like an alternate version of this, where it would be like, these things are frickin weird. Maybe they're caused by natural phenomenon, we don't understand. But it's just something or whatever, but it is something really weird. And it's something that's kind of upsetting, just to the public, like in the areas where these things occur. Right. So if it's just all pranks, then it's that's it. That was so you just kind of like, so even if it's like, not something they care about researching, but it's just one of these weird things that happen that make the world kind of unexplainable and strange, right? Like, however you want to like figure that out. If it's just caused by pranksters, then and it's always been like, you know, whether it's someone going out and like mowing down someone's field at night, in the, you know, 12th century or whatever. It's you know, it's like, or it's teenagers with boards and things hanging out by stone hinge making crop circles, it kind of gives it like, we don't have to think about it anymore. Right? It's like, you know, the weird, it's not really weird. There's nothing weird going on. So don't worry about it, whether they're actually like looking into it or care about looking into it. It's just like, it's one of the maybe it's like one of those things that feels like it kind of breaks the, you know, the barrier a little bit. And when you break the barrier and make things weird, people kind of get freaked out. But if it's easily explainable, then it doesn't matter. You know, even aliens would be like, okay, well, there's probably aliens, I guess they would do something stupid like this. Like, like make a bunch of patterns, because they have to, you know, because they're aliens, they're weird. And that's like how they communicate by burning people's fields up or whenever it is. Like, it's like, I kind of feel like the, like it could be just as like, that level of like, pranksters is easy to explain something that we don't really understand and kind of messes with our understanding of things.

Baba: And sort of the benefit of that is what he was like control. Yeah, like keeping people from getting weird.

WDG: Yeah. From being like, yeah, kind of like why you would, you know, ban like certain types of like substances like, oh, it makes society, you know, it's harmful to the structure of society that just keeps everybody, you know, going about their day, you know, kind of like, you know, kind of like, if there was a meteor, it was going to collide with the earth, like, and people knew about it. I'm sure they'd, even if you couldn't do something and say we couldn't do anything about it, it probably wouldn't tell us because they want to keep things rolling, you know, like, it's like, until like the last minute when everything, you know, it's like, like, it's just kind of like, I think a lot of it might just be like, they can't explain it. It is something weird. Here's a, if it is like, like, if it was like the government, but it could just be like, or it could just be like, well, it's just easy to accept those kinds of, you know, explanations, like, I

Baba: think, I think, yeah, the government really relies on all government relies on an official story. And I think when you break that, it's not very useful. And like, so like right now, if I put a curse on somebody, in for the time being, in the United States, you can't take me to court for that. Well, we can't remember.

WDG: It's at least 40 telling is illegal in New York City.

Baba: But putting curses on people for my own pleasure, or, or, I don't know, sense of justice or emotional regulation. But that is still legal as of early April 2026. So why? Well, if they started having, first of all, one explanation is because it's fake. It's not real, it doesn't do anything. But if it does do something, and that let's say the official powers know that it does something, okay, that'd be a pain in the butt to have to prosecute because you can't, what do you use as evidence? Like, we got a lot of people like, there's already the packets are already full of DUI cases. If you had to do everything for everybody that thought they were getting the evil eye, you don't like, you'd never be able to do these things.

WDG: Which trials are better in small villages, you know, I mean, like, yeah, yeah.

Baba: So that's the thing, right? So she turned me into a really inconvenient to have to prosecute witchcraft cases on that level. Yeah. And so like, all right. And then like, if you so if the official story kind of like, okay, we need to like, cut off all these things at the edges, get rid of our our big feet and chupacabras are Bloody Mary's and crop circles, and just keep things within the we're here to buy and sell things. And that's how you feel better and fix your life is buying something or selling it. Then it's a lot easier to manage all this. Or is it that nobody believes this stuff? You know, well,

WDG: I think that's probably true, too. I think like, you know, I think most people I'd be like, I think there's like, probably like a sinking suspicion, like, I think, you know, science, like, it's like, we there's more than we don't know, that we do know. And that's always going to be the case. Like, yeah, the universe is like, basically infinite, right? You know, it's like, there's like, and there is weird things. And, you know, you might be able to eventually like, explain something like, you know, it's like, okay, like, you know, crop circles, like, the real ones, like, we'll say real, you know, for lack of a better term, aren't the hoax ones are like, that have the weird phenomenon they are. It's like, it's like plasma, crazy plasma storms, you know, plasma is the most common form of, you know, matter in the universe, like that's out, you know, more so than other things. And it's like, you know, why it's doing that? Well, maybe it's the certain places have these environmental conditions to do that? Why do they look geometric? Well, be no fractal patterns, and these things appear in nature. Okay, fine. Like, you can kind of get around that a little bit. But like, it's still freaking weird, even if that is even covered though, right? Because that's still like a weird because I mean, like, that, like, you know, of listeners, I shared a video the other day with the guys that of like ball lightning, that was happening in Canada. And that that's just weird. I mean, like, it's like, it's one of these things where it's like, very few people see it, it happens, but it's like the phenomenon is really strange. The they were saying possibly some of the Brazilian crop circles because of the way they move like that. But if it was ball lightning kind of, it would give it that and like, we don't like certain patterns do appear in nature, you know, it's like that is kind of weird. But still, that's kind of that is a strange phenomenon to happen. And it is a weird, like, yeah, generally weird thing. It's like, I mean, like, even that, like, as a thing, if I was out in like a field at a ball lightning appeared, I'd be like, she's what the hell is that probably would be freaked out. And that is something that we kind of know we know happens. And people have seen it, at least in like certain like, that's, that is scary. It's a scary thing.

Baba: And it tends to leave messages in binary code. That's the weird part, you know, because like how, so it's like, there are these things out there that are like official explanations, but it doesn't cover a lot of this stuff. And also, like, some of this stuff, you don't actually like, no one knows what it is, right? And then somebody's like, like a mathematician is looking at and they're like, it's pi. Look, look, it's and like, they're like, oh, no, here are these things. And then you can actually see, oh, yeah, this is pi to 10 decimal places. Like, and there's even an indication that it's a, an endless number, like, in the thing that was actually a thing that was, I don't think I have the actual name of that one.

WDG: Was that done by like the board guys? No, it's way too,

Baba: it's way too complicated. And like a lot of these things are like, there's, um, so in 1996, you've got the Stonehenge surprise, which was a fractal, they call it a Julia set. It's a fractal pattern. And it's like, but here's the thing, guys that come up with pranks to do with boards and string in pubs, don't know about the F in Julia set, let alone be able to represent it across some big field, like the

WDG: kinds of people that could have been Oxford pranksters, you know, like the guy could be the

Baba: guitarist or the guys from the mean, right? Like, one of them's an astrophysicist, they're in the UK and stuff. It could have been those guys. But what we have to do is actually compare when these things showed up versus the Queen tour dates. And they weren't around in the ninth century.

Danny C: So if I'm sure you're right, we solved who the real hoaxers are, the Queen.

Baba: Oh, and Freddie Mercury, the bell UFO was supposed to be spinning Mercury to cause it to float right? Yeah, yeah. Spinning Freddie Mercury. Huh?

WDG: Yeah, one is kind of like, give me the power.

Danny C: Give me the price. But what's it I just got to tie this up real quick. Before we do that. So we actually love Queen. So no, just we do. So I had to say, go

WDG: ahead. Yeah, the one thing it's instrumental that is like the the I think it was like, if I'm not, if I'm thinking about the same one, the speed in which that happened, like there was like, two either like two explanations. One was, there was a guy who did a flyover, it wasn't there. And they was coming back and like, whatever, an hour later, it was there. That was that. And they said, well, maybe it was done overnight, but it still would have had been done in a couple of hours. And most people said it was like, even like, they said, like, even with a large team, and all working in precision. And because of like the weather, I think at the time, it was like raining and stuff, you know, it would still it would have to have happened like, so like, they would only have a couple hours. And everyone would have had to be working in like perfect coordination to get the exact if there's that the right is that the same one, right? The Julia that's that's either that

Baba: one, or it's the milk spiral.

WDG: Okay, maybe that's the last

Danny C: time on that for a second. Okay, that prize of like 409 circles. And they were all crazy sizes. I think the smallest were between three and 10 feet. So I guess I don't know, one and three meters approximately. And the largest was like maybe 50 feet in diameter. So whatever that is, like perfect. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 400.

WDG: There was no, there was no, it's like they couldn't tell that there was like a way to get in and out of the field either. Right? Like it was like that in that one, too. Yeah.

Baba: And yeah, it was like four hours on a rainy night or something. Yeah. Yeah.

Danny C: No, no, what, what I will say about this one, but kind of what you were saying, actually, there are, I feel what they're called, but like the lines where the tractors go, those did exist in the field. So it is possible. They could have used it was a hoax, you know, could have used that to kind of get through it and create it. But still, it was, it was only a few hours. I think it was like four hours of darkness. It rained that night. So there, and there was no evidence of like muddy footprints, anything like that. And kind of what you're saying, just having the precision to be able to do all those perfectly in a short amount of time. And if you're, if you're just a couple of people, you know, being able to do that so fast, and if you have a bunch of people, all of them having decent skill level to do this, because I don't, as far as I know, people aren't practicing this anywhere. Maybe they are, maybe they're like starting with a small wall.

WDG: Yeah, you have like a team of like 25 people and like laser survey guys up in like the hills going like, okay, guys, little to the left, you're going like, you know, in the dark, yeah, in the dark in 2001. Yeah, in the rain. It's like, it's it's that that does feel a little like, you know,

Baba: cell phones existed in 2001. But like,

WDG: yeah, I mean, you could use walkie talkies, I guess, you know, like that, because thinking of that, you know, like, but it's still like, it does feel like, yeah, to do, like that idea of like getting it done that fast, even with the from like, what I've read from like the skeptic, you know, perspective, they still felt like that was like, would have been very complicated to pull off like, you know, there would have been and then nobody. So say you have this big coordinated team of people who are doing this, that one person, like breaks, I mean, like, you know, because the bigger a conspiracy gets, more likely, like somebody's gonna break. So it's like, there's got to be like, so they're all like, you know, just like laughing still, like, gears, like, like, nobody in like the 20 something years of that one happening be like, Yeah, it was us. We were this like awesome team of specialty, like crop circle guys who are just so into it. There was like 20 of us and we, we were so good, we could do these things so fast. And it was just like, you know, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Also building the skills to do with that quickly, like, again, like, like you have to practice and make sure

Baba: otherwise, what you have to do is be like, actually, the witness lied all together. They worked on this for weeks. Right. And then they just said it showed up. Right. So it's like the he's lying kind of thing. And it's like, but then there are things that are that are harder to say about that.

WDG: So like you said, the Julia one, I think that was the one that showed up really fast. It's like, we showed up overnight.

Baba: Stonehenge is like always under surveillance. Yeah. Like, it's always being so it's like, how the hell area would they not, you know, yeah, like, yeah. Yes, it's like, so, so yeah, it's pretty wild. It's pretty wild. So yeah, and like, like, talk about that. Okay, so like the idea of like these things that are like specialists would realize these things, but like, they don't, they're not the same kind of people that are like prone to doing like large scale pranks, you know. So you guys know about the that. Okay, so like in the 70s, there was this thing that was beamed into space on a radio telescope that was like, I forget what it was called, but it was basically like a binary code message that showed some basic stuff about Earth. This isn't the thing that was on Voyager. That was like the engraving of people.

Danny C: Arecibo message. Okay, yeah, yeah, it came from the Arecibo radio telescope, I believe.

Baba: Okay. And so yeah, so this thing that makes sense, because this thing was called the Arecibo answer.

Danny C: Yep.

Baba: And it came back in 2001. And it's like a response to the Arecibo message or broadcast or whatever. That's like, you know, like slam books, do you remember those in grade school or whatever people would like, right, like, what's your favorite color? And like, you're like, number one through 12, and you just fill out the answer on number 12 for every, everyone in there, right. And it's like, so that's kind of like, oh, well, what are you made of? We're made of carbon. And these are like, oh, we're made of silicone, or, you know, and like, it's kind of like a point by point, like, hey, this is where you live. This is the kind of place we live. And so there's this thing, though, at the bottom of it, there's this thing that looks so at the bottom of the original one that we sent out, we do like this sort of like an ASCII drawing of a or non ASCII, like a binary drawing of a radio telescope. And so on this other thing, there seems to be this machine that's indicated that is that might be how they broadcast this back or got this message or whatever. And so and that thing, that image at the bottom seems to have appeared in like another crop circle from like years before or years later, or I

WDG: do think that there are ones that are like prank stir kind of things. But I always find it weird that like, especially for like, the really cool ones, like that just nobody aside from these two guys, you know, takes any credit for any of them ever like it's like, it just doesn't feel like there's a lot of people like other than obviously people that do this for commercial things like that people know that they're doing them because they're hired to make something, you know, just like you're a contractor or whatever, you know, it's like like that kind of thing. But like, it's just like weird, like, I don't know, it's just, it just feels like, you know, somebody somewhere would be like, Yeah, I did this. Like, I'm also by making these freaking cool ass crap circles. And it's like, I figured out like this, like, I don't know, just like, that's, yeah, that's much more cup that I can, I put these board string guys to the thing. Look, I mean, I know people have like, done demonstrations of like, oh, well, people could do it this way. But they're not the but they're not the ones who have done it. They're not taking responsibility. They're just trying to give explanations and like, so it's like, I don't know, I think, I think like, one for one of these, somebody would come up and, you know, say something, like, like somebody, you know, be like,

Baba: Oh, because like, why, why do it? Why do it? What's the payoff? And that's kind of

WDG: the jellic just bored. I don't know. It's like, it's art, I guess, in a weird way. I don't know. It's like, yeah, I guess.

Baba: And that's okay. So that's just for the prank ones.

WDG: Right, right. I'm just saying, yeah.

Baba: And let's say, yeah. And let's say, but even if they have some, maybe in their locality, they kind of say they're about it, but it just never gets big because also, a lot of these things just aren't talked about anymore because of the debunking by Doug and Dave, the so called debunking. So it's like, like, like I said, in the beginning of this conversation, and I was like, a few weeks ago, I would have been like, yeah, I don't think any of those things are like, unexplained or anything. You know, I think they're, you know, I mean, but that just shows how well that story has kind of like, distributed because like that. Okay, so Doug and Dave, okay, that bit, that was in 1991.

WDG: Yeah, but they said they were doing them since what, the 70s or something like that was that it or like, right, right, right, right. They were the ones that kicked off the phenomenon of all the other pranksters that are doing it as well. Like, you know, like all around the other guests, it's been a common prank since whatever, like, at least the Middle Ages, but, you know, it's like, like, this is just a prank. People always do in this part of England, just like they're

Baba: so the Julia set, though. Yeah, 96.

WDG: Yeah. Okay. So they were they out that was like a copycat of that.

Baba: That was the Stonehenge surprise. They had to be really good. They got like, really good with that technique revealed in 91. Right. Like in five years, I got so good that they could do it with government stuff watching Stonehenge and do it overnight and tourist

WDG: the attraction.

Danny C: So hang on this for a second. Okay, so they've been doing those two guys, doggone, whoever Doug and Dave, right? Okay, so they were doing this since the 70s. You said right.

Baba: That's their claim. Okay.

Danny C: And in 91, although they're inconsistent about when they started. That's okay. That's okay. We're gonna roll with this for a second. Okay. So in 91, they went public and said that they were the ones creating these. Right. Okay. And in 91, so they were doing this for 1520 years ballpark. Okay. 5020 years doing this, and they were still producing shoddy circles. Right. After all that experience, all that time, they were straight up paid off.

Baba: I'll say it.

WDG: I'll say it. By the real crop circle manufacturer, Banksy. Banksy.

Baba: Trying to figure out how to profit off of it.

WDG: One of these days, you know,

Baba: but these things keep getting more sort of elaborate. And so it's like, like by the time, so in 2003, you've got a crop circle that's made with just the the wheat curled a few inches from the top. So it's not even how the hell do you do that? And that kind of gets into that whole world of what we were talking about with the with the radiation thing.

WDG: Did you guys come across the so I think it's in Chile, where it's like the similar to where like the Nazca lines are, right, that there were like basically sand crop circles that I think I think it was like was like circa 2005, 2006, or something like that. Now, those would be like really hard to produce because it's like you're digging and you know, you have to have more like excavation type of tools, but it was still like crop circles, but there were sand circles. The one explanation is they were covered up original Nazca lines that like eventually like were uncovered by a storm or something. So they could have already been there. But if it was the other thing, it was the pranksters, they were like, they require a significant amount of equipment and time and in an area that you're not really supposed to be doing something because I think I think around a lot of those lines, they're like considered cultural heritage sites and things like that, you know, so it's like, I don't think you're allowed to just be like, let me just bring a bunch of excavation equipment, start digging these circles for a prank, you know, so it's, you know, they kind of again, these weird kind of things, but I thought that was like kind of interesting, you know, it's like similar phenomenon, but like, what even much harder to produce than flattening wheat down, you know, yeah. Yeah.

Baba: So let's talk about some of this stuff. There's some other things that are kind of these weird outliers. There's a guy called Robert Ridge, who is deer hunting in Roswell, New Mexico, and discovers a stone with these etchings on it. And he just kind of thinks it's this cool thing. And turns out the etchings that are on it match a crop circle that had appeared like, like a few years before. Yeah, from eight years before. And when I actually look at the stone, there are no like carving marks on it. Like it's everything's very smooth and everything.

Danny C: It was also magnetic in nature in some way.

Baba: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was like lodestone or something like that, or which was like a non-local, like it wasn't a locally occurring.

WDG: So you say it's like a meteorite or something like that, like with an etching on it. That's a weird thing. So yeah, I guess.

Baba: And it's and it's in Roswell. Just saying, okay, you know. Yeah, so that's like weird. So these weird kind of correlations that are like, well, so somebody did this crop circle, this elaborate crop circle, then takes a stone carving of it in lodestone, goes to Roswell and throws it there on, I don't know, in some deer hunting area. So someone will find it later and it'll all come together.

Danny C: Or does someone approach the guy and it's like, here's a stone. We want you to say this. Here's some money. Yes.

WDG: Does your honey guy have any stone carving to check? Does he was he interested in aliens or crops or goals or stuff? I guess if you're living out there, you might just be in the culture. What about the weird stuff with like, let's just like, let's jump away a little bit from the like modern versions of the conspiracy theories, like jump back to like the weird like medieval versions of these things that are like, they're like some kind of demons or they're like, like, you know, they're kind of like fairies or they're like weird like things and like, you know, that these or that they're like certain areas of like, you know, these like, because I mean, people did experience these things before, right? And they had this kind of weird notion of like, well, it seems to be related to this kind of like, the other world, you know, like, sort of going back to the liminal space, crop circles, like appearing in places that are more like, like Stonehenge area, like those type of things, or there's something, some other kind of phenomenon that happens in the area, like there's a lot more like electromagnetic phenomenon or weird underground, you know, like types of, you know, things like it tends to be like, yeah, I think areas that have large like chalk, soil and deposits and stuff too. So there's like, no, but I mean, like, they had like, I don't know that they were specifically thinking that these were like pranks or trying to cover it up. And they weren't really thinking that they were aliens, like that's just, you know, so like, I don't know, it's kind of a, so that's like, kind of goes into this weird, like, I don't know, like, just like, again, like, like going back to like, so far, weird, like, things like leprechauns, weird stuff, like this kind of weird phenomenon of like, oh, explaining this other thing with this, like, it has something to do with this, like other world or, you know, like, yeah, between world things. And like,

Baba: so the, yeah, like leprechauns and, and fairies. I can't remember which of them, but one of them is said to sometimes braid the hair of a horse's tail.

Danny C: Which is interesting, because some of the crop circles will have like a woven quality about them. They're not just like, like a flattened path. They're kind of woven almost.

Baba: And that's, and that's kind of where I was going with it. That is like, well, well, that's weird. But they're probably wearing like little flying saucers going around like horses butts. Anyway, I mean, the tails people, I mean, their tails were braided by flying saucers.

WDG: Anyway, maybe a poor choice. And it's kind of a weird things, like, it's like aliens are out there braiding horses tail. It's like, why would you do that? Why is this like, this is the bizarrest way to find ways of communicating.

Baba: Because maybe humans make really funny expressions when they're surprised. Or scared, you know? Yeah, but um, but yeah, so yeah, you have that like braiding thing, right? Now, I'm gonna, I'm gonna jump into the, into the science stuff for a second, only to jump back to where you're talking about, Bill, like middle ages and stuff, right? So one of the interesting things, some crop circles, particularly ones that don't have, like that, if you hooks it with the board and string, you tend to damage one side of the plant, things are bent and stuff, they don't continue to grow, you kind of kill them, you know, and so you've got that going on. The ones that are just kind of laid down and continue growing and stuff. There's this thing that happens sometimes where you've got, um, Dan, you were describing like the, uh, the, the, the curl of, uh, the kernel of the wheat plant. At a certain point, it bends because I think of like the starches and things in it and then it kind of stiffens, it hardens, but these guys that get laid down, they, they straighten out again and they continue growing. And the thing that seems to do that is radiation. And, uh, one of the things that they discover on these, um, on some of these plants is these, what they call, uh, expulsion cavities that occur at the nodes of the plant. And it's like popcorn. It's like, um, and, and which is an appropriate metaphor here because it's microwave radiation that would cause these things to happen. So you're talking earlier about guys walking around with microwave packs. Okay. So, but here's an interesting thing. Those wheat kernels in that circle have higher protein. Okay. They're more nutritious.

Danny C: So they also grow faster and taller.

WDG: Are you saying leprechauns are out there microwaving the wheat to make it more nutritious?

Baba: I make no claims. I just ask questions and shrug my shoulders. But if you go back to this story in the 9th century, that there was this, uh, cleric or whatever that was concerned about people that were gathering seeds from what we would describe in this conversation as being like crop circles. And they were using them for some kind of like fertility stuff. Um, maybe fertility rights or, I don't know if they're using it like nutritionally or what, you know, but they were believed to be using it for these new, these fertility rights. So if they were real crop circles, you know, that had these higher protein, uh, things, so it's like people had this sense that there was something, there was more oomph to these things for whatever reason. And they were gathering them from these particular places or they just figured these things showing up were of spiritual significance. So they'll gather their plants from there to use for stuff. But whatever the case, I just find that to be an interesting little link up of like, yeah, that they were being seen as being more magically potent, but actually they're also more nutritionally potent. And I just, I just think that that's kind of a, an interesting little parallel.

Danny C: Another, another interesting point. Um, and I, I didn't look at this too, too deeply, so I don't know if it's how widespread this is, but have you guys read about the ghost circles and the ghost circle is when you have a crop circle and it, you know, it goes back to normal over time or, you know, I guess you mow it down at the end of the season or whatever. Um, but the following season, year or two, um, it grows back in the same crop circle way, but it doesn't happen all the time. So I don't know if that's tied into ones that are more, you know, ones that are less hooks like, or if it's completely random, I don't know anything about that. I just thought it was interesting, the whole idea of the ghost circles.

Baba: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. There's a reason for that to happen. Um, other than some kind of weird residual radiation or, or something else we don't understand.

WDG: You have to have those medieval microwave backpacks, like those guys really, those pranksters back then really had bad, those batteries must have been a huge,

Baba: but yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah. I didn't drag along people with horses and things like that. They're like pumping. It's the spin again. It's the spin that's behind it all. As long as you get them going to go fast enough.

WDG: Yeah. Yeah.

Baba: Tell them the Sabbath's coming. Uh, um, was that still a rule for Christians in the, in the middle ages? I know. I know we moved it.

WDG: We, you know, I don't think I'm particularly good. Did

Danny C: you see the video? I don't know if this is legit or hoax, um, or not. Uh, it is a picture of what looks like a tiny ball of light as kind of like zigzagging through a field and you see the crop circle form in like a matter of seconds. Yeah.

Baba: I wanted to find out if that was fake too. It's called the Oliver's castle circle or the Auburn castle event or whatever. I don't know. I don't know. Uh, I don't know if that was, I was looking into like, I expected that I was actually going to like do a deep dive on some of these because I didn't actually expect there to be very much out there. Yeah.

WDG: Well, I'm going to go out there, live with that one and probably say that's probably not real simply because like people who are like with like the ball lightning things and that kind of stuff. It's from my research. It's like, it's really hard to capture it. And there's been people who are like, you know, study atmospheric weather conditions and they have a really hard time finding and getting this footage. It's like, you know, people that are almost like tornado chasers, but they're plasma storm chasers. I think if it was real, those people will be all on top of it because like, it'd be like, well, you finally got this phenomenon on, you know, like I think it would have more of a, would have had more of a splash in that community rather, you know, like, like they come up more frequently, like, you know, in that sense, because it's like people are looking actively looking for documentation of that phenomenon just from a, you know, in like that, like study to study it from, you know, like, so it's, it's, yeah, it's like, you have to really be in the right place at the right time. And it often doesn't last more than a few, like, I think, like, typically, the ball lightning thing might last up to a minute to two, it's a very short lived phenomenon. And when it does go out, like, explode, like, it's like, here's

Danny C: my problem with any explanation regarding anything, like weather related, whether it's wind or ball lightning or whatever, all these designs are so different. And if they were all generally the same, or had similar characteristics, and they do to an extent, you know, circles and lines, okay. But that's not enough, I don't think I think if it was something more natural, it should follow very similar behaviors.

WDG: Yeah, you have repeated like, yeah, repeat it like pattern. It's like kind of like the same. And maybe there's a few out there that are that that do kind of repeat that way, you know, but yeah, like, I don't know that the

Baba: Yeah, there's like weird things that happen in this world for sure. I mean, they're like these like ice wheel things that generate on their own. And they're like, it's like, it's like an Arctic weather phenomenon.

WDG: Or like, what was the was it the was it the Tuskegee event? Is that the one I'm thinking about the meteor like, like, in the atmosphere in Russia, and it knocked down like all the trees in the circle, it was like, but it was basically like from atmospheric phenomena encountering like a meteor, right and explodes and the shockwave pressurizes it and it does leave like a kind of pattern ish kind of thing. But it's not like, perfect, like the crop circle, but like those types of weird things like that do happen. Like, you know, weird shit does occur in nature, you know, for sure.

Danny C: Yeah, but you're not gonna get that precision. And that's, that's kind of what you're saying. You know, it's going. Yeah.

Baba: Yeah, I think especially things that seem to have a message if it's got like a picture of a face and a bunch of stuff in binary code, it's like, okay, like explain this to me. Explain this to me. You know, it's

Danny C: well, so let's talk about that for a second. So I have to as much as I like that idea, and I like the the concepts to be redundant of, you know, getting a return message however, many years later, we can't ignore the fact that the original message was made public. So people did know about it. It wasn't like just the people and that the telescope, they sent this message, they were all hosh hosh, they didn't give out any of the details. So we can't ignore that, unfortunately. So it is possible.

Baba: It could be done by probably well-planned, highly skilled group.

Danny C: Like David Donne.

Baba: David Donne, with at least a couple poll alters. Yeah. Yeah, that. Yeah, so could people have intentionally done it? I mean, I suppose I could intentionally design something like that. Are the people that intentionally could intentionally design something like that the same people that could then pull it off in a field? Maybe, maybe. But like, you start putting all these like, unlikelihoods together in my mind, and it's like, yeah, I mean, I know people are like, oh, so much more likely it was a flying saucer.

WDG: Give me an explanation then, you know. Yeah, it's like, well, there's, I think like, yeah, there's, I think like, all of the, all of the stuff have like, things that could do something like, like, people could be pranksters and somehow an artist and making things. Some of this could be natural phenomenon. And some of it could be this, but it's none of them are seemingly all of that, you know, it's like, like, like the, like the prankster ones don't seem to exhibit the burn microwave thing, you know, the like, the, like, the, the ball lighting type things don't seem to have like the overly complicated things like they, there's like, you know, the, you know, it's got so it does have a kind of weird, just like, you know, it's the, the ones that like, require a lot of speed and technical things in poor weather conditions. So they were ones in highly observable areas that like, happen, you know, overnight, very fast, you know, it's like, like, it's all these things that, it's just like, it's like none of these things and aliens doesn't like, isn't really the best either. None of these things feel like they're any particular fit, the peg in any of these, uh, crop circles, holes, uh, crop circle shaped holes. Yeah, it's like, like none of these are, none of them feel like they're satisfying. Other like, you know, in any real shape, you know, um, government cover up doesn't feel satisfying. None of this feels like very like, good, like, it's just like, as a, um, as a tidy solution, you know, um, just, yeah, it's,

Baba: it's, I mean, to me, the thing that, I know people are gonna freak on this, but like, the thing that makes the most sense is probably some type of spacecraft that's doing these things. Um, and the thing that gets me the most is these apical nodes on the, on the wheat that burst from the microwave radiation, or, uh, radiation that still seem, electromagnetic radiation that still seems to be present in certain crop circles demonstrably.

Danny C: So let's hang on that for a second, because we can't ignore this. Do you know, is that, so if you take a crop circle, one that is seemingly not manmade and it has that, um, that rupture, okay, right? Do you know for sure? Do you know, is it within all of those that are in the circle in the design itself? Do they all have the rupture or just some loom or you're not sure? I don't know. Okay. So that'd be very interesting because it's like, I've read about people explaining it like that can occur naturally. Okay. Okay. It can occur naturally, but if it happens in all of them in the design, I don't know about that being natural.

Baba: You know, that seems a little, I haven't heard an explanation of that happening naturally.

Danny C: I just, I just saw it can happen naturally. I didn't dive into,

WDG: like, it was like, Oh, that part of the field was struck by lightning at some point or something like that. Right. Like, let's just, you know, that could, that little section can have passed.

Danny C: Maybe that's the way they get around it. Like, Oh yeah, it happens naturally all the time when lightning strikes, you know,

WDG: in this particular, but yeah, if they're all ruptured like that, you know, you know, I'm sure someone's done this, but I wonder if like, I wonder if within the ruptured areas, if there's like any kind of other, like almost like a sub pattern to that, because like, kind of like anything, like when you're heating something, you know, it doesn't always do that directly evenly. Right. Like other points will often be hotter, you know, than another point, you know, it's just not the way things work, even if this was caused by plasma, whether that's plasma from alien ships or plasma from phenomena, whatever it is, like, it would still probably have an uneven, you know, points, I wonder if there's like, further, if it doesn't occur on all of them, I wonder if there's like some other kind of, you know, pattern within the pattern, sort of like, you know, a sub pattern. It'd be interesting to, that's something I have to really think of till now, but I wonder if someone, I'm sure someone's looked at that, like, there's got to be something out there, because, yeah.

Baba: Yeah, there's just, oh my god, there's so much.

WDG: I just don't feel like it's weird that like, it was such like a, it's like, despite this happening for centuries, at least, we know, right, like these types of things occur. I feel like once we hit that like, prank point, it was just like, yeah, like that drop off and it's like, yeah, we don't really talk about this anymore. Because we still talk about like, even other stuff that like falls into like, the weird phenomenon, like, you know, like the cryptids or UFOs, or we still have that, but like, this one was very like, yep, it's just all tidied up, wrapped up, done into. Way to be very curious about anything, guys, like, it's just like, and then, like, when you get to that, like, explanations, yeah, well, they microwaved them, or they did this thing, you know, the pranksters did all that stuff. It's like, that starts to get like, yeah, but it's just, even from like, you know, like, the Occam's razor standpoint, it's like, the, again, the tech that they'd have to be messing with, and stuff like that, it's just out of the realm of commercial things. And the fact that like, there's no evidence, we haven't seen like, they like, Doug didn't produce his, you know, microwave radiation gun, you know, and say, yeah, when we had the boards, and we batted them down, Dave came by and fried them, like, and popped the popcorn, like, it's like, they didn't say that. And that's never occurred, come up. And it's like, and again, if you're just doing this, it's like an art expression, like, that's fun, like, you're, you're gonna mess around with that, like, it just, yeah, it feels like it's just not like, yeah, there's no satisfying, like, you know, the, I guess, like, conclusion from the it's just a prank, because that stuff gets, is kind of like, yeah, and if it's like, oh, well, it's natural. And it's like, oh, so it's, again, like you said, like, it's always not, it's always lightning striking where you made the crop circles that just happens to be.

Danny C: It's always at night.

WDG: Yeah, it just feels like, yeah, yeah, it's a weird thing. Yeah, something weird about that whole thing. It's just like, yeah, we've kind of just been like, yeah, it's, it's fine. Pranks, dot, dot, dot, dot,

Danny C: but kind of like what you were saying earlier, you know, it's, I remember, I remember, I was in the 90s when obviously was in the 90s, because we talked about that before, you know, where this was like a hot item, like for such a short period of time, it was like everywhere. And then these guys come out with the boards and like, it's got shut down. Yeah. I think you've never heard about it. I mean, obviously you did, but not at that same level.

WDG: Right. It's not going to make the news and stuff like that, because then it's like, oh, well, we're just being pranked. Or maybe I'll make the local news like crop circles appeared in, you know, Joe's field, like, you know, overnight. That was weird. It's probably pranksters again with their. They got it again.

Baba: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

WDG: It's, you know, it's like, yeah, so it kind of feel like, uh,

Baba: yeah, it's, uh, I don't know. It seems to me like something's going on and the official powers don't want us to know about it for some reason or another.

WDG: Yeah. Oh, that could just be like, it's a weird thing. This is like, it's just weird. Like, like, it's like, I don't know. There's, there's a, sometimes we do like, you know, and I'm sure I'm personally guilty of this. Like sometimes when the weird things happen, you just want to be like, nah, something, it's fine. Nothing's going on. You know, it's like, it's all easily explainable. Put that out my mind. Like that's weird. Randomly like, you know,

Baba: it's just kind of the jaws thing. It's like, uh, what is pretend the shark gone? Yeah. Everything's fine.

Danny C: Everything will probably be fine.

Baba: Don't worry. Go, go, go. Enjoy the beach.

WDG: Don't worry about it. Beaches are open. Yeah.

Baba: Um, yeah, I mean, like, and again, like, okay. So I'll say this last thing about the government coverup thing you guys hear about, uh, Operation Blackbird and Colin Andrews. No, this is a good one. Okay. So it was this thing. It was, it was in the UK. Um, if I'm wrong about any of this comments, people comments, uh, it's in the UK guy named Colin Andrews, who's like a, uh, good journalist, a television journalist or something. Um, he was, uh, basically like there's this cooperative thing with, uh, essentially like British military or defense, well, whatever terminology is lacking here, people, uh, but their defense, uh, world. And they had this field, uh, that it's called Operation Blackbird. If anyone wants to look this up on Colin Andrews, and they had this field that they were like, okay, we're gonna do, we're gonna study this. We're gonna see if we can catch crop circles happen, you know, and whatever. So they have a field that's being monitored by the military overnight and whatever, and they're doing this for, and so they're like, there are little ways into it. And then overnight, one of these people comes to Colin Andrews and they're like, it happened. There's a crop circle, like blah, blah, blah. And like, according to the agreement, he has, he's cooperating with the military. So he puts this statement out there. And so in the light, he hadn't even seen it yet. And the light comes up and he gets to the middle of the crop circle and somebody had put this astrology, uh, game, this like astrology. So it was like a, oh, it's a hoax. It was a clever hoax. So like he was pissed, you know, as you would be. Uh, but, but wait, the military was watching it all night and some hoaxers came in and did stuff. That's a little too convenient to like, oh, look, on this big television thing, it's displaying how fake all of this is, you know, and it's like, oh, yeah, again, this convenient kind of, well, the military would have had to have been in on it in order for that to happen. They'd have to all turn their backs for five hours.

WDG: There were the pranksters.

Baba: That's why they send out the special forces that are good.

WDG: Yes. Special crop circle division. RAS.

Baba: Got a little crop circle patch on there. Uh, so yeah. So now at the same time that this was going on, at the same time that this was going on, there was an actual investigation going on at a place called Silbury Hill. Um, that was on these orbs and crop circles and things. So some people say the Blackbird thing was sort of like a big distraction tactic because there was this other thing that was going on locally as well. That was like a big investigation. They didn't want people involved in. But again, why the effort to discredit? But because there's some benefit to discrediting folks that are coming forward with these weird stories. And so, um, I just wanted to throw that out there as a, as a thing. Some of these crop circles have such strange stuff associated with them. Like, did you hear about the machines that are implied by some of these?

Danny C: There's a guy at the machine parts. Yeah. Yeah.

Baba: Yeah. And again, it's like this idea of like, Oh, you take this thing, this 2D thing and you spin it. So it's a three dimensional thing. And then it suggests these machines you can build and stuff like that. And it's like, this is so weird, but like, here's one of the problems with this. And this is something I think we can all appreciate talking about like this, this era of things being hard to prove. I can't prove that apical nodes in crop circles have been exposed to radiation. I can't, I don't have that expertise. I have to rely on somebody else to tell me that I can't take asymmetrical crop circles, pop them into a computer, spin them around to make them a three dimensional thing and then build machines from those things. I can't do that. I don't have that. I don't have those skills. I'm I have skills to just talk about these things and then just go off on tangents. Those are my skills. I'm also a very good hip. White rabbit hypnosis. You're still here. We'd probably get along. So a lot of these things you have to go off of these other people's arguments. And then you're like at a party and you're talking about these things and you're like, yeah, these things. And someone's like, I never heard that. I'm an undergrad in botany. I never heard that. You know, that could they don't curl. And I said, well, no, they do. I heard about I've read a thing on it. You got it. Like you have to come with all this stuff that you have to bring from other experts. And then so it's hard. It's hard to like,

WDG: well, actually, like here's the thing on the basis for levels of of why people will cover the things up or do things. It's like simply because like there's there seems to be a modern phenomenon that this is not a conspiracy because like it happens all the time is that we are trying to constantly undermine people who have expertise in fields and undermine the idea of people having expertise. It seems to be like that seems to be like not because like, you know, it's like, it's like, no, don't trust this person who like knows what they're talking about. Trust me. The dunning Krueger effect manifests in physical form. Yeah. You know, it's like, so it's like, there's a, you know, it's like in whatever field it's like, so there's this kind of like, so maybe there you go. That's an explanation is like, it's a good way to like undermine expertise. Like people say, this is a this is a thing that's happening. It's like, no, no, no. It's just pranksters. You don't know what you're talking about. And so you, because you don't know what you're talking about. All experts like you don't know what you're talking about. You know, it's just,

Baba: I've got the ultimately satisfying explanation for this that I have not heard anyone present yet.

Danny C: Oh, you've only heard it here. We only hear this.

Baba: This is a wondering monsters podcast exclusive. You haven't heard this anywhere else. And if you have put it in the comments, because I haven't. And that's proof of telepathy. And I do actually have a skill. Okay, so the crop circles already were there. Right? Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, where's he going with this? Right? I'll tell you. You sit tight. I'm going. They already were there. This is a simulation, right? This is a simulation. And we are operating on something like a virtual circuit board. Okay. That's running this simulation. And what happens is at parts of this virtual circuit board, sometimes something glitches out, particularly where there's like a lot of electrical stuff going on where they're like chalk deposits. Because that's what that's like a capacitor on this virtual. This virtual circuit board. And what happens is it glitches out. And what's left are these like braided these, these braided crop circles, which are actually just highly complicated structures for running the simulation that behind all of it is fairies and Bigfoot.

WDG: Underneath the they treated to the underground.

Baba: Literally underneath it all. Underneath it both literally and metaphorically.

WDG: Well, there's a I know we have to probably wrap into our things. So I won't get too much into this, because also this is going to be a very large overhaul. But there's a whole like, guys over here, like Gaia theory, like, so Gaia, so Gaia theory, like, it's largely been like abandoned or morphed into other stuff. But just as like, you know, it's like so that the earth is this kind of like, it's an organism, you know, it's a and things like this, like crop circle phenomena and stuff like that. It's almost like a manifestation of like, injury or stuff to it's like, it's like how it manifests. Like, it's, you know, like, something, something occurring to it, you know, it's like, it's like, it's just like, why it has organizational properties is because like, it's not like Earth is an organism, like it's, you know, it has consciousness or something in that sense. But it's like, this, according to Gaia theory, like, like, like, like, whether like, that's, you know, yeah, my personal, like that, but like, the likes, I don't want to go too like animist in that sense, because that's not really in it. But that idea is that these phenomena occur because like, this is an organism operating in, you know, like, you know, these, these different weird things are manifestations of like, something occurring to that organism, you know, it's like, so there's like, that's like, that gets like a little, definitely gets a little hippie trippy.

Baba: It might explain the ones that are like, okay, circles and weird things like that, but it doesn't explain the ones that seem to have messages.

WDG: Right, right. Yeah, but it's like, you know, unless the Earth is unless you do go do

Baba: it, straight up intelligent, which but

WDG: it's just like, I just want to throw that out. It's another weird, another weird, not fully satisfying explanation of something that could be there. So we, should we, should we figure out how we gonna, I'm gonna wrap this up, you know, like do crop circles. It's just, yeah,

Baba: well, how about this? How about this? How about the implications of crop circles? If they have a non fraud origin, do you think the implications, what do you think the implications are? And do you think those implications are scary? I will start with, I think the implications are that they were done by something that isn't human. Or that is like some kind of like future human or something like that. But you know, it's not much better. So non human. I don't think that's necessarily scary, because I guess I don't think that the world that reality has the borders that we think it does. I expect that some levels of weirdness can happen. But I need to give it some kind of a monster. Well, here we go. Let's maybe this will help.

WDG: Like, let's just say, okay, you know, you live out on a farm or like, or you just like you have a really big backyard, right? Like, they look like whatever you're living in an area. And you go to bed at night, and they wake up the next morning. And there's this huge crazy crop circle, like, oh, yeah, there we go again, you know, it's like, like, it's like, it's like, like, yeah, and it is one of these burnt, like, weird things, like, you know, like it matches those that part of the phenomenon, they don't Frank sir, you didn't hear a bunch of generators going in through the night or like, you know, it's like, you know, and what is that? How weird is that? Like, are you that okay?

Baba: So, so okay, so a little bit, but actually, I think I'd go a little more. My reaction would be a little more close encounters of the third kind, you know, like not quite building mountains out of potatoes, but like, but like, yeah, like, it would be like, wait a minute, like this happened in my space. Like, I probably feel like I was special, or even more special than I think I already am. And, um, yeah, so I don't think I'd be, I don't think I'd be scared by it. Because I think if they wanted to do me harm, I was right there. Like they were smart enough, they could have just gotten me, you know, I think I would be in awe and excitement about it. And if I happened to have a job at the time, I would soon not have it because I, I've just gathered seeds from the field and using them for things that, you know, be I this would be my job, I'd be I'd probably try and make some money off of it. Because it'd just be more interesting than whatever I was doing before.

Danny C: It's like magic beans from the beanstalk.

Baba: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I see. Okay. I got shot up phenomenon in and of itself. What do you think?

WDG: What's your rating? What's your rating?

Baba: Oh, I don't give it two monsters, but they're like happy dancing monsters that came to a crop circle. So not scary monsters at all. You could debate that maybe you could say that I didn't even give a monster.

WDG: It's like weird, because like, I'm thinking of that way, like, my original thought was to give it to right, because I was gonna be like, you know, circles are they're just weird. It's like, this weird thing happens. But like, if it happened, like to me, like that kind of thing, and it just like popped down in my backyard kind of thing. I think I'd be a little more freaked out, but in that same thing of like, the freaked out part, especially like given the, it's the more phenomenon version of it, right? The I would be like, kind of like, I don't know, I think I think I might have to bump it up to like a kind of like closer to a three, maybe I'll go two and a half. Because it's like, because it would, it's just not those weird, like, I feel like it's kind of like reality breaking kind of phenomenon, right? Like, especially if it happens to you, like all of a sudden, boom, no crops are going to boom, your whole field is this crazy thing. And depending how intricate and the more intricate and weird it is, the more my freak out level would go higher up, you know, it's like, it was just a plain circle with nothing else going on. Like, I might be like, you know, did I let the dog out? He ran around a bunch, you know, it's like, pulled the microwave off the wall. And but it was plugged into an extension cord.

Baba: Blasted out on my apex.

WDG: Yes. But yeah, but yeah, I'd be kind of like, I think I would be a little bit freaked out. So I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go, don't bump it up to a three, because it's just, it's just that kind of weird, bumping into something weird, kind of sometimes just kind of is kind of not scary, like, I think it's gonna kill me or do something like that. But yeah, scary in the unsettling kind of way. Yeah, in an unsettling phenomenon, weirdness about the world kind of way.

Baba: Like, everything like it is implications are more like the thing than the fact that your stuff's,

WDG: yeah, like kind of like you were saying, like, if it's like, not the be like the simulation, but there's like a but it kind of like, those instances where like the curtain gets pulled back on in the theater a little bit, you know, and it's like, well, though now there's something weird going on like, yeah, yeah, so that's, that's where I will say that. And also too, like, if there's a black ops team of crack crop circle artists, like, how do we join? How do I join? Then I might lower this.

Baba: Yeah, right. Like, it's like, it's like, the word that's left I keep hearing is so well funded. It's like, can I apply? Yeah. Yeah. So see, I gave two happy monsters, you gave three unsettling or weird monsters. Yeah. All right. Only one of us left.

Danny C: So let me preface by saying, at one point in time, I don't know if it still exists, I need to I need to I'll put it in the I'll put it down in the description, I'll put a link. But there was a website for people, it was like some kind of crop circle makers website. And allegedly, if you looked in the source code, their references to both M5 and Mi five.

Baba: Yeah, yeah. I think they're called circle makers. I think it's that's the name of their group.

Danny C: Yeah, so I'll see if I can find the link. I'll put it in the description. And if it doesn't exist anymore, I'll see if I can find an archives.org link to it. That'd be very cool. All right, so so when you were talking about this bill, they made me think of this story. When I was in college, when I was taking physics, one of the things we talked about was smoke detectors and how smoke detectors worked. And inside smoke detectors, there is some kind of radioactive element that is the basis for how they work from what I remember. And I remember coming home for a break, and one of the smoke detectors stopped working. And I was like, Oh, cool, let's take this part, let's see how this works, completely forgetting about how it actually works. And I started to take it apart. And I get maybe like 30 seconds into you know, a couple screws out, cover off whatever. And I remember about the radioactive substance and I'm like, Oh, shoot, probably shouldn't mess with this. And I you know, stop put it back together. And that was the end of that. And I think this works as a good segue for me and how I feel about this. If this happened to me, on my property initially would be like, Oh, cool, I'm gonna go check this out. And then I'll go wander in the field. And then remember about the radiation like, Oh, shoot, maybe I shouldn't be back here. So I don't really think it's scary per se, regardless how it's formed, I probably give it like a one and a half. I don't really think there's much to it. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I think yeah, I'll

Baba: say I'll say that is that is the half monster a the bottom half for the top half.

Danny C: What's the bottom half because it's making crop circles. Yes, wandering around.

Baba: It's a guy that needs to braid his tail. All right, well, I feel like in some ways, this was more conclusively inconclusive than some of the other ones. But I'm still I'm still leaning towards there's like, surprisingly more I want to look into to find out more about some of these specific ones like the Arecibo answer. A year later, there's a binary code with another face and in a message that was translatable in English. Here, this is a great way to wrap this up. Do I have that? Beware the bearers of false gifts and their broken promises. This sounds very relevant. Much pain, but still time believe. There is good out there. We oppose deception. Conduit closing.